418. - Archers Of Loaf

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Sunny Los Angeles. A beautiful Thursday morning. Chris Black, DJ Them Jeans. We're back in the motherfucking mix. um jason how are you this is not our normal time so i just want to make sure you're kind of situated and you're feeling pretty good i'm feeling good it's a little it's two hours before so i still had time to walk my poochies um but i didn't really have time to do a full workout i don't know if i will have time to do that same i mean i'll have time because but it's good it's good you'll you'll have time I work a lot more hours than you, so it'll be different for me. But for you, you should be all good. You'll probably have time to go do one of your... cupping sessions and get your uh hair lined up to your 0.5 and anal like anal gland expulsion whatever you guys i don't know what you bottoms do before you hit the edition but we are going of course to the gq man of the year fiesta this evening so there's no time to do anything i know i was talking to to uh Our friend Olive, she was at the British edition last night. They got Jack Harlow as a performer, which I'm a little jealous of, of course. So I'm kind of wondering who's going to touch the stage at the edition tonight. I've heard some rumors, but I haven't heard a confirmation yet. Oh, really? There's rumblings. Well, I think that there's been some. Yeah, exactly. And I obviously don't want to release any of that information here on How Long Gone.

We'll be giving a full recap, of course, of our event participation. Yeah, we'll talk about all that in the chat room, Discord VIP lounge afterwards, of course, guys. Yeah, I'll be in Discord live from the event, kind of posting pictures of Jason behind the scenes. So it's going to be some... Well, weren't we guessing? We're like, who could the man of the year really be? I mean, obviously, if it's 2022, it won't be a man person. It's always multiple people. Right, right, right. So far they've announced an F1 driver. F1 driver, Andrew Garfield, Zoe Kravitz, who's a hot chick. The man of the year that I'm attracted to the most is probably Zoe Kravitz. See, that's funny because I'm more of a... She's beautiful. I'm more of a Brendan Fraser guy if I had to choose. uh who i was most attracted to especially in a cowboy you know how hot guys look in cowboy hats bro not all guys not not all you have to have the swagger not all fellas not all fellas you have to have the swagger of a yellowstone style cowpoke yeah like a brendan frazier you know some a guy who's appeared in such uh films as encino man These are classics, bro. Cool Hand Luke level films of just pure masculinity. No, I mean, I think you genuinely like Encino Man. That feels like a Jason movie. Well, it was an integral part of my childhood growing up. You know, Pauly Shore Pilled, of course, that's where I learned how to not wheeze the juice. And the metaphor for that has been trickling through my life. for countless years millennia countless years yeah yeah but we were uh when bay and i were walking our poochies this morning we were talking about or we were doing the same exact speculation and and we were doing a little bit of that a b comparison of uh 1993 brendan frazier versus 2022 brendan frazier oh what a you know it's like

It's nature. It's nurture. It's genetic. It's like, how can how can one person be so genetically attractive? And, you know, you don't get the feeling that it's because. You know those guys, like, in the 90s where they just wake up and they just are hot and they're chiseled perfectly and they have a six-pack and it's all genetics? And I don't know. I mean, sometimes I go surfing, but that's it. Like, they don't do anything and they just look... I've seen Keanu Reeves before, yeah. And then when they get older, some of them age like a fine wine, like a Brad Pitt or a Clooney or whatever, and then some of them fraser out where their genetic build and their DNA just says... I think we're all set right here. We're going to go into fucking tortoise mode right now. I'm about to make your ass look ghoulish than a motherfucker. Look, I agree with you, but I think that we should watch our words carefully as we creep into middle age because I think I can fight off turtleism. Hopefully. But I think that God has plans for us, Jason, that we can't control. So I'm not going to... No, no, Chris. I drink raw milk. So I think I'm going to be fine. I mean, I know you think that. I'm telling you that stretching for two hours and drinking raw milk might not be the recipe for aging gracefully and beautifully. But who am I to say, Jason? I'm not a doctor. I'm not God. So what you're telling me, I don't care who you are, sooner or later, we all dance with the reaper don't we we all dance with the reaper that's the reality and if i you know if i uh the one thing jason you're not gonna even if you shrink a little as old people tend to do it's not really gonna affect your bottom line which is nice my height is still gonna be brolic as hell yeah you're still gonna be tall as shit and you can still you know flirt with the checkout woman at Whole Foods successfully into your 70s just based on that alone. I'm going to be like the dad on White Lotus trying to holler at anyone. Prostitutes in the hallway of an Italian villa. I haven't seen White Lotus. Probably not going to see it if I'm keeping it 1,000 with you. It's reached that succession level I don't care point for me.

So I'm going to just back off that one. No, we know. We know. I mean, I'm not talking about White Lotus for you. I'm talking about for all my Loti heads watching. You know, we don't love it. We love it. I heard Loti is opening for Blur at Wembley. That's crazy, dude. I didn't know. Oh, nice, Chris. Yeah, how the fuck is Blur going to play Wembley, a stadium that is the most iconic stadium in British music and football history? and you're not going to have legends open for you. There's so many bands. I mean, Slow Tie is cool. No shouts to him. We'll have him on the pod one day, but it's like, come on, guys. No, I think it's more. I think the problem is what we forget about Damon. Have Primal Scream opened something. What we forget about Damon is that he is, unfortunately, in Gorillaz. If you remember that he's in Gorillaz, a band that is animated characters, that kind of. You know, that feels desperate enough to me where you think that you're blur and you want to be cool and have like some young local Brits open for you in the most legendary place, one of the most legendary places in the world. And I agree that is a miss. You know, that is a miss. Yeah. Well, the problem is it's a fucking blur show, not a guerrilla show, guys. Yeah, I know. But I'm saying it. What I'm saying to you is. But I know what you mean. That's the way that's the way his brain. That's the way his brain works. Exactly. Exactly. And also Primal Scream would not open for for blur. There's too much ego there. Gillespie wouldn't have it. That's fair. That's fair. But, you know, something of that caliber where it's like, yeah, you're a huge legendary band from that era. You shared the bill with blur countless times. Maybe your friends, maybe your enemies. There's drama. We squash the beef in order to make $275,000 for an opening slot, whatever it is. All right, you guys do $35,000. We got $300,000 for you, British pounds, British sterling. Kay Trinata's like, I'll open for them. What's the check? I'll do it. Kay Trinata said, yeah, look, I just need this stage that floats, and then I'm kind of good for $250,000. I won't even play any remixes. I'll do all original shit for $250,000.

But that blur announcing the show at Wembley is giving me hope that Oasis is tiptoeing around this. I just feel like, I don't know, I just feel like it's got to happen at least before I die. So I have to keep up. And not a cover band. You want the real band with Noel and Liam together. Would you see Oasis without Noel? Obviously, you would never be Oasis without Liam, but you would go watch a Noel-less. Yeah, I would. But also, that's going to a Liam Gallagher show right now, basically, because he just plays. He plays eight Oasis songs in the set, and it's pretty good. I mean, I've seen it. I've told you the story of when I saw Liam and Ashcroft. together in Central Park Summer Stage with Ezra. Ezra flew to New York. We went to that. It was raining. We all had our parkas on. And Richard Ashcroft is like, I mean, he looks amazing. He sounded great, but he's really on some like, he's on his Kyrie, too many YouTube videos type beat. And unfortunately, I know this is going to be a shocker to you. Richard Ashcroft, one of the most beautiful men to ever live. I don't think he's that bright. So I think it's a little bit of a, I think much like an athlete, you know, he's not known for his kind of brains. Okay. So it's a little bit of a, it's a scary combo when you go, when the algorithm hits a dum-dum, we're destined for failure. I guess I never considered it, but Richard Ashcroft, one of the original Britpop hot dummies. I mean, you could literally, literally cut diamonds on those cheekbones. On those cheekbones, yeah. The guy is beautiful. But, sorry, speaking of cowboy hats. I do have a little bit of a Western-style look for tonight's party, Chris. Do you have your look put together? Oh, yeah. I have my Tom Brown black tie shorts tuxedo ready to go. I took the pants to Mr. Kim over at La Brea Cleaners and had to explain to him that I wanted them cut off. And he...

had a tough time, kind of understand that. I'm like, no, just cut them. And then he's like, okay, okay. And then he starts to go over to the sewing machine. I'm like, no, bro, you're done. I just need you to cut these. Here's a tenner. I just need you to cut them off right above the knee. We did a nice little measurement and they're good to go. So you're doing a frayed hem? Is that what I'm understanding? I mean, it's not really frayed because you don't wash it. But yeah, it's a Tom Brown. Sorry, it's an unfinished Tom Brown. It's an unfinished. I'm coming for Lee Pace's fucking neck. Jason, is what I'm saying. I see him wearing the shorts. Everybody's, oh, Lee Pace. Look at his quads. Oh, he's so hot. He's so tall. And tonight, it's Chris's turn. And no one's going to care. No one's going to care, but that's okay. Nothing better than Lee Pace's neck, if you know what I mean. Gobbledy gobble. Happy Thanksgiving. He got that gok gok. Yeah, so I'm excited to see this, Chris. I like that you took the Tom Brown, and sources are saying, checks notes, that you did freak it. Is that correct? I did a slight freak. I mean, this is a classic in the Tom Brown universe, but... I never get to wear stuff like this, so I thought it would be fun. To me, it's still pretty classic, even though it's shorts. It's still pretty simple. I guess if I'm being honest, I did have this on my bingo card. That's crazy. Anyway, we'll see you guys at the GQ Man of the Year party tonight. We do have a guest today, and we're going back into our legend bag. um archers of loaf is a band i've been listening to since high school from uh chapel hill beautiful chapel hill north carolina uh merge merge records luminaries uh icky metal um from 93 is is constantly in rotation they have a new album reason decline that came out uh just just uh yeah in the last month or so getting uh rave reviews you know enemy rolling stone pitchfork they're all fucking sucking that arch Sucking that loaf dry. Well, Eric also was in Crooked Fingers, which was another band that I listened to a lot when my friends lived in warehouses and didn't shower that much. So it's a full circle moment for us. And I love having another southern rocker on the pod. Not just me for once. Not just you for once. Yeah, I went back and listened to that 93 Icky Metal record.

And I was like, damn, bro, this is... I liked it more than I liked Pavement. And they get a lot of comparisons to Pavement, but... Oh, it slaps, dude. It slaps. This episode is going to really excite David Coggins. So I'm kind of... I can't wait to get some messages from him. Yeah. And the other guys over 40. This is the opposite of a Flo Millie song coming on in the club. Old whites come to the front. This is not a drill. All right, let's go down to Chapel Hill. Let's hit Cat's Cradle with Eric. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer. And quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world.

writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen.

It's nice to be able to do press in the comfort of your own home and talk to a couple strangers and then hang up when you're done. I hate email interviews because I'm a perfectionist. So if I have to email, it'll take me six fucking hours to do an email. And if I could just do a Zoom or a phone call, let me just talk to you, man. No, you're right because in the world of journalism, which I dabble a bit myself, that's kind of considered cheating. If I'm emailing you the questions and you're sending me the answers back, I don't know what my job is at that point. Part of the fun is the conversation, but it is easier for the writer and not easier for you, as you're saying. Yeah, and it's the same thing as lists. A lot of things these days are like, what are your ten favorite whatever? I'm like, I don't have ten favorite fucking anything. Me too. It'd be like, hey, Eric, name your 10 best friends. You're like, what? I don't even have 10 family members. They're like, well, what other aspects of the world or your life are you a perfectionist in? Lawn care. Lawn care. I have an acre and a half of land here in Athens, Georgia. And then I have, and it's on a slope with a creek. And you would say, oh, you know, your creek. Oh, that's so beautiful. But all it is is a... is a Dorito bag reservoir. Just Dorito bags and beer cans washed down from the whole freaking city into my creek, you know? All right, so you're having to maintain a body of water when you're not kind of demoing. So that's a pretty big, what kind of... Dorito bag reservoir is my favorite Apex Twin song, by the way. So thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, well, yeah. I want to, yeah. Now, are you maintaining this yard, this acreage yourself? And if so, what kind of rig are we working with as far as the lawn goes? I have to be transparent. It's a lot of trees. There's a lot of water oaks. Thank you for your honesty. Yeah, you're welcome. You're brave. You're so brave.

You can't cut those things down because it's historical. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Because they're 200 years old or whatever. But there's a nice fellow named Ignacio that cuts the lawn maybe every other time, and he has a fancy. I just have a push mower, and I just mow it every two weeks in the summer. October is the best month because then you don't have to mow it for four or five months because it's cold. Are you doing any gardening as well? It's my wife. She's a gardener. Okay, so there is, thank God, a green thumb in the household. Oh, yeah. Her family has a history of doing that stuff really well. She comes from a deep background of gardening. Of gardening, yeah. It's heavy. Heavy gardening. So this is a nice – is this in North Carolina still? I'm in Georgia. Oh, you're in Georgia. I didn't know you were in Athens. I'm from Atlanta, and I was just in Athens two weeks ago, actually, for the first time in years. It's changed. It has. Everywhere has changed in the sense that people have to have a place to live, you know, so there's a lot more condos. You know, it's got more commercial and everything. Sometimes it doesn't bother me as much as it should, maybe, because I like restaurants, you know, and I like people having a place to live, you know. I don't know. I don't know. Damn, you're such a sweetheart, Eric. Eric, what are we going to do about this overpopulation? How are we going to exterminate? I don't know. You know, that's a dangerous conversation, and you could end my career if I got too far. All right, Tusha, you won this. I start with myself, though. I start with myself, though. I should be taking off the planet first. Yeah, you're leaving it. I like that. You're willing to sacrifice yourself first for the greater good of the population. But I know what you mean. It's cool to be like when you see like, oh, the city ain't what it used to be and a lot of stuff has changed. But it is cool to be like, oh, like. There are situations where young people can create businesses and cool new restaurants in my town, and I don't have to go to the big city to try this quinoa bowl or whatever. That part about it is kind of cool. We're like, oh, we got a yoga studio. It's crazy. Yeah, it's the shoving poor folks out of their homes is the bad part. That's the worst part. That's a whole other pod. That is a whole other pod. I noticed that Athens just felt like a lot of different kind of sub-sandwich chains.

had really kind of spread their wings through the beautiful downtown area. And I just, what's your favorite? Are you a Jersey Mike's guy? Are you a Subway Classic? Are you a Jimmy John's? Like, where do you fall on this important scale? I'm a Publix guy, man. I go to the Publix. Wow. Wow. Okay. Damn. Obviously, that was a trick question and good answer. Athens, so that's sandwich country up there is what you're saying. You can't fake this shit, man. I also like Publix, but I am Jimmy John's pilled, actually. I don't love the kind of cheeky branding. It's a little silly for me personally, but the product is superior for me. I don't think I've ever had one. I'm going to try it now. Yeah, if you want to just, we'll put you on pause and we'll be here. You get up and leave. I'll do it after. The chips are house-made. I just want to put that out there. That's something that Publix isn't going to really be able to offer you, I don't think. Corporate chips. Corporate chips suck. Corporate chips have no soul. Eric, are you guys going to deactivate the Archers of Loaf Twitter account as a protest of Elon Musk taking over? What do you think? I have a very kind... a person that helps me, a very capable person that helps me with all my social media stuff. And she guides me in these things. And I inherently would never want to put a Twitter account. So when she tells me, I think you might want to try to get everybody on Twitter to follow you on other things. I'm like, yep, let's do it. So we're probably going to be off of there at some point. Yeah, I mean, for most bands, a Twitter account is basically just like, here's another place to post. press and tour dates you know there's not a lot of like unique personality and storytelling going on it's just kind of like a bulletin board it doesn't match my personality i i can't it's hard for me to do things in one in like 24 characters or whatever it is you know i just something about it i see people doing it quite well um and i don't have an inherent i'm not a luddite or anything i don't hate technology and i don't yeah i think twitter's fine or it was fine uh but i just didn't i just that was not one i like pictures better i would you know

Instagram would be better for me. You seem like a big LinkedIn guy, so that's good to know. I'll follow you over there. I don't even know what that is, man. No, it's cool that you don't know what that is because you've never had a job as an adult. You've never had a real job, I would assume, unless there were some down years there for a while. I've worked in a lot of restaurants, but no, not for years. You're a professional. Yeah, I would say not having a LinkedIn account is a badge of honor that you should be proud to wear. It always felt wrong for me when I had one briefly. It's basically your CV, right? It's what you put your resume on. That's fine. People got to work. It's all right. It agreed, and I'm on it, but it's kind of invented a new style of person that sort of leans into some inspirational posting. You know what I mean? Where I'm like... I'm like, bro, you're a project manager at Dell. I don't need to know. I don't think you're going to get me out of bed today and teach me how to grind, but there is that kind of new stuff. Well, there's that, but it's all rooted in my entire personality is my job, and that's all I care about, dream about, live about. And it's cool if that job is a passion of yours and not if it is... doing hr at dell computers or something like that yeah i mean i yeah my work is my life um and that's so so maybe that's why i feel comfortable on that platform thank god you're a creative yeah thank thank god we podcast for a living yeah um now what how long have you lived in athens i didn't realize i didn't realize you lived there i've moved a lot i've been here for 11 years and it's the longest i've ever lived anywhere in my whole adult and my whole life childhood so yeah And I don't love it. I like it fine. I think what I like about it is it's inexpensive. I love my wife and my kid, and I like my house. And I have some dear friends here, and there's a lot of musicians here that I like the way they play, so it's good to play with people. But I like bigger cities. I want to be in the woods.

in Alaska, or I want to be in New York City. Athens is not that for me, but I do travel so much that it's okay. It's a great place to come home to. I agree with you, but I had to make that drive from Athens to the beautiful Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta airport. I didn't love that. It's 30 minutes further than I would like it to be. I know Merge has the helicopter for you, so it's a little faster. That commute... I got a little secret for you. I can help you. Here's your secret. What you do, do you want to get to Athens to the Atlanta airport as quick as possible? You leave at 3 a.m. Okay. I'm an early riser anyway, so that's not really a problem for me. Three is pushing it a little bit, I think. So, Eric, does that, regardless of what time your flight takes off, you're leaving at 3 a.m.? Because both of us, we subscribe to the blue-eye lifestyle where it's, The opposite of a red-eye flight, if that makes sense to you? First one out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm that way, too. I'm being facetious because Atlanta traffic is worse than L.A. or D.C. even. Maybe not D.C., but it's just so bad that you can't leave. If you leave at 3 a.m., you'll get stuck in construction or something. There'll be a problem. So you're saying that you want to be either completely remote, living off the land, killing things with your hands, or you want to be in the hustle and bustle of the Big Apple. That's correct. but somehow you've settled on the exact in-between, and you've stayed there for 11 years. Strange how it works. That's what happens when you have kids, Chris. Yeah, and my family stuff is good. How old is your child? He's five. Oh, wow. Okay. Is there a little bit of guilt of, like, Daddy is a touring musician, and I'm going to go hit the road for a while, so if you guys want to live in this two-horse town, that's fine. I'll be at the Bowery in New York getting my dick sucked after my show, so you guys do whatever you want. Golly, that sounds so nice, but that's not how it is. I guess when you put it that way, that would be nice. It hasn't been that while in a little while, maybe. Yeah, I mean, ever for me, unfortunately, but I think that I don't feel guilt isn't the right word I would use, just because I'm just doing what I'm doing, and I've always done it since I was a kid.

You want to show your kid what you do so that they can grow up and realize, oh, if you do something, it's valuable. You don't want to just like, I love you so much, so I'm going to give up everything for you. You don't want to do that. Let's screw them up. So I don't have a guilt thing about it. I do tour less. I do about a week a month or maybe 10 days max of a month if I can sneak it in there. That's nice. And it's good for my age. I don't want to do it. too crazy like I used to. I don't think that I would be able to take it, though, when I say take a city the size of Athens. Because Athens is a good city for this size. But if I wasn't touring or traveling, I just wouldn't. I would be more assertive to my family. We've got to go somewhere else. I would be more like that. Did you live in New York for a long time or no? I've never lived in New York. My dad's family is from New Jersey, from Jersey City. And so I would go up there in the summers as a kid. But I'm from North Carolina. I was born in Greensboro. And my parents separated when I was quite young, and I lived with both of them. So I lived, my name is sitting in the southeast, Greenville, Atlanta, Chattanooga. Wow, all the local hot spots. Tallahassee, Chattahoochee, all of them. I'm from Atlanta, born and raised, so I lived there until I was like 24, 25. I'm very familiar with the Athens world, of course. But Chapel Hill is historically... you know, a music town in the same way that Athens is, right? Like it's kind of that same energy because it's a college town. Which college is that for our listeners, guys? Tar Heels, Michael Jordan, Dean Smith. So Tar Heels, that is the rivals of Duke. You're not a Duke boy, right? I'm not. I wish I had more hostility. I'm not a sportsman. Nobody really assumed that you were going to have a fiery opinion on college football. But I should – I got to be careful because I am a Tar Heel, but I just don't really care. Sure, sure, of course. That's all that matters. Yeah. As long as you're registered as a Tar Heel in this town, you're good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are the other – now, the luminaries from Chapel Hill, excluding yourself, of course, what are the – let's give a – what are the other musical luminaries from Chapel Hill that we should know about? Well, I mean – Merge is in Durham now. They started in Chapel Hill. Yeah. And I guess Mac is notoriously a Duke fan.

And so that causes a lot of trouble, not with me personally. I think I'm going to be sick to my stomach. So you're saying maybe he's lost out on new signees because of his allegiance to Duke where he kind of missed out on. You would have to talk to him about that. It wouldn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me. It makes you wear the Duke jersey when you're signing your deal. We just couldn't come to terms. I was wearing black, just like my soul, just like no team affiliation. That's smart to keep it neutral. There's so many people that go way back to James Taylor and all that, and then you can do Dexter. I didn't know James Taylor was from Chapel Hill. His dad was the dean of the medical school there. That I did know. He gives me... Shut up, Jason. He gives me... He gives me a little bit over-educated vibes. You know what I mean? He gives me a little bit of a silver spoon. Yeah, I think he's a phenomenally good folk star or whatever, but it's one of those things where I can't hear. I guess because my father liked that Carolina On My Mind song, and I just heard it so much growing up. If I hear that shit one more time. I think he would probably feel something similar to that, perhaps. Because you get sick of that stuff, you know? Yeah, I mean, I'd get sick of it, too, if it hadn't bought me my fifth house. I mean, you know, he doesn't want to play it, he doesn't want to hear it, but he's happy that it gets played. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure. He looks pretty good, too, I've got to say. My favorite moment of his is when he's in the movie with Adam Sandler, and he just has one line, and I think it's like... Fuck you or something. I actually remember this. It's an unexpected turn, of course. That's part of the fun. I think I remember that. They're like, James Taylor just said fuck you to me or something like that. That was awesome. They recognize him and make sure his name is spoken. I'll say this. This is the most I've ever talked about him in my entire career. That's odd because I'm certainly not an enemy but I can acknowledge his

his abilities, but I just have never been asked as many questions. It feels strange because I'm not even, that's not a part of my world. You're not passionate. We were talking about people. Yeah, yeah. There's so many. I'm leaving people out and I just don't want to do that. You got to talk about mellow mushroom. There's a lot of stuff over there. You could never forget Mellow Mushroom. Well, a lot of our listeners might not know what that is. Would you mind explaining it? I don't know what it is either. I know it's a pizza place, but I don't know its history. That's it. It's just a pizza place. Just a stoner pizza place. It's definitely a southern thing because it's mostly in the south. Yeah, we went to one in Asheville a couple years ago. I took Jason on a southern road trip to explore my heritage, and we took him to... Asheville, Nashville, Charleston, Atlanta and Savannah. And I think his eyes were open, I would say, because he's from Orange County. He's from a different part of the world. Yeah, absolutely. Eric, don't worry. I found over there on [redacted address] in Athens, 30601. There's a Mellow Mushroom location. Go ahead and check it out. We can book you a table if you want. I don't know if you're a pepperoni or cheese guy, but we can preorder for you if we need to. I'll just need a credit card to hold the rest. $25 will be true. If you don't show up. I mean, I think that the college town, it's interesting that you went from one college town to another, and you never lived in New York. You never lived in L.A. either. I've spent a lot of time in these places, and I wanted to live in both, but I just never got around to it. I mean, it's... strange it is a good you're making a good point i don't know why i haven't i would love to have lived it sounds like there's an emotional block going on here because it sounds like you still actively are trying and wanting to live in la or new york but Something is keeping you from that. Yeah, I love both of those cities. I usually have people that I'm a New York guy or I'm an L.A. guy or whatever. I like them both. Why not both? I'm with you. I love the sunshine and I love the smog and I love the cheesy people. I love L.A. And New York's great for all the obvious reasons. But I think it's just because I've recorded in both places and I've been to both places so many times I just feel like, ah.

And at this point, at my age, I'm 52, you know, I just feel... About time to start setting up some roots. Yeah. So I just had never really... I mean, I would, but I don't know. So you had a kid pretty late, huh? 47, yeah. Damn. Yeah. It's a lot of work. That gives us hope as two people in their very early 40s who also have no kids. Very early. No kids at all. I'm literally 40. I'm literally 40. I just turned 40. Do you want kids? Hell no. If there's any doubt, then you shouldn't. And my kid's killer, man. My kid's really great and easy and he's funny. But it's just so much work. All right. So Eric says, kids, even the good ones suck. Yeah. Even the good ones are a lot of work. So when you're home, are you taking him to school and doing the whole thing? We were going to do this. I couldn't do this at 3 because I got to go pick him up. 210, 215, I've got to go pick him up because my wife's an ICU nurse and she's working today. In Athens, I feel like this is more common than other places, but do the other parents think you're a freak or are they like, oh yeah, he's like the guys in REM or whatever. He's like elephant six. He plays guitar. Yeah, I think there's some people that are like that. The world's a big place though. Most people don't care or know. No, no, it's just a lot of artists, too. It's not just musicians. There's painters and there's sculptors. There's all kinds of... And you don't really look like a long-haired, freaky person, perhaps, walking down the street. You just kind of look like my uncle. No, but I'm awkward, though. People look at me funny and be like, what's wrong with this guy? Oh, really? Yeah, and it's okay. I'm used to that, but just because... I don't know. It's just a weird... What is wrong with you? I don't know, man. I just... You don't seem... Well, I'm just saying, as somebody who has grown up as kind of being told I'm awkward as well... I think that maybe when you were younger, but for now, you seem like a very well-smoken, pretty normal, witty, intelligent person. Man, you are so kind, man. That's really nice to say. I'm not just buttering your bread, sweetheart. That's coming from the heart. I don't know how to respond to that because it's just a nice thing to say, and I appreciate you saying that, but I feel that way. Other people may not get it is what you're saying. Well, you just don't present yourself out of the gate that way. You know the work.

I've done, and it's not like a cold slate. So you meet somebody on the street, and your glasses are crooked, and your face is peeling from curatosis. And you just want to yell that, I got best new music on Pitchfork. You don't understand. Yeah, they don't give a shit about that, man. In fact, they hear it, and they just look at it. In fact, people find out how I play music, and they're nice, and then they go home and hear it, and then they're not nice. Oh, wow. Okay, so they're just... That happens. They're judging you based on the vibe of the music. They might not like some of it, let's say. Yeah, what does that feel like as a 52-year-old father when you meet somebody and they're like, oh, what's your band called? And you have to write it down on their phone and they go on the Spotify and like, I'll check it out. Yeah, that's right. It feels great because I know where it's going. And I just, I have a mild... antagonistic streak. Yeah. And then you see him at the school play the next month and they're like, eh, I like Pavement more. Well, they wouldn't even know what that is. They wouldn't even know what that is. They would just be like, I don't know why you have to be so angry. It's very noisy. It's so loud. I don't understand. I just find that, I guess with our peers that are parents, I think there's a common thread among them that's like, especially if you do something, let's say, less than traditional for a living, that there's like this constant children force you to meet people you would never meet and spend time with people you never spend time with. And sometimes that can be good and sometimes that can be bad. Absolutely. The good news about where we are, where my kid goes to school, it's just a lot of artists, a lot of parents are in the same position I'm in. I'm in a lot of them. They're not necessarily all musicians, but they're... other creatives you know they're whether they're graphics they're living they're living an alternative life yeah they're not they're not like not not many of them are like selling insurance or whatever there's anything wrong with that yeah no not not a ton of trump flags over there in the drop-off zone no no no yeah not at all yeah i can imagine i can imagine you sending your your kid to the kind of school where they kind of make up their own curriculum you know i mean grades are optional you know what i mean it's not no he doesn't like his teacher because she's so strict

I'm like, that's good for you, little man. I got a maid. You don't know how you got a maid. You'll know when you're like 12. You're like, damn, my parents are pretty cool. But right now, you don't know because we're pretty lax. We have rules and what have you. But his kindergarten teacher, man, she's fantastic. She's like, shut up and sit down. And it's great. But she uses better languages than that. Sure, sure, sure. I need more of that. There's rules. I need more of that in my life. So my mom is a nurse, and she worked with babies for 25 years and did all this stuff. And she would always talk to me about her work, and then I would talk to her about my work, and it would make me feel like an absolutely worthless loser. And I wonder if maybe you have some of the same feelings with your wife. She's saving lives, and you're playing guitar, and you're good at it. So your mom's like, I bring life into this world on a daily basis, and Chris is like, I use cocaine to manipulate artists. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Well, there's value in that. There is value in that, yes. I do feel very proud of what – I mean, it's a weird thing during the pandemic because you're proud of them, but you're just like, well, are you – is this worth it? You've got a three-year-old kid and you're dealing with COVID people. You're bringing it home. We all had it so many times. Fortunately, we didn't have that much trouble with it. There's definitely a sense of pride. I'm proud of her and everything. For sure. I think there's a little sociopathy. I don't care. I don't feel that guilty about it. People say nice things. Your music can't get too much worse. That helps me a little bit. That makes me feel. And you're like, all right, loser. Buy a t-shirt. That's Jason. That's Jason. All right, loser. For the record, that was not right. All right, loser. Buy a t-shirt. Yeah, your music changed my life. I was battling terminal, blah, blah, blah. Are you done? That does happen, actually. There's people that are inherently annoying. The vinyl is 180 grand, bro. It's 45. So just go ahead and grab one. No, but I mean, I'm sure when that does happen and they say, bro, your music changed my life, etc., you probably take the time and you're polite to them, but you're saying inside you're just fully dead, of course. But you're a good person, so you're being like...

That's so awesome. Thanks so much. You guys want to take a pic or I got to head out. It's really awesome. But inside you're like nothing. You want total transparency? Yes. It depends on the person. Yeah. Sometimes it is that. I don't give a shit about any of it. And then sometimes you're like, this is a very cool person and this is. No, I'm the same way. Like if the girl is hot enough and she's saying your music changed my life, I'll be like, I'm sorry, what was that again? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if it's another 28-year-old guy in loafers telling me how great the podcast is, I'm definitely going to be able to kind of get out of there quickly. Yeah, you don't want to hear about – you have that element with shows. Oh, man, I remember that show in 1994. I'm like, I don't. Yeah, bro, I've done 200 of those a year since I was 21. I think that there is an element. Yeah, I mean, I guess, though, do you find that – So when you guys are playing now, are the fans, is it a nice mix of kind of your peers and then younger people that have like been waiting to see you? Or does it feel like kind of the old folks home? It's more of an old folks home, but there is a bit of younger. There is that for sure. It's maybe 10, 90 or 20, 80, 80% old and 20% new younger. But I mean, that's an arbitrary. thing i'm throwing out there that's fine though that's what that's i mean that's still pretty good it doesn't matter as long as the tickets are selling you know if you if you have to bring your nurse to a show they got to buy a ticket for them too they don't get in for free someone's got to push the wheelchair right somebody's gonna push the wheelchair somebody's gonna drive you there's all kinds yeah that's true archers of loaf show looking like a flight to fort lauderdale you know with the wheelchairs out front Now, are you able to leave it all on the stage still, or are you guys kind of keeping it to an hour? Are you having to really put it out there? We play like we played when we were 20. Here we go. I have really high blood pressure because I'm insane. I fainted on a plane for the first time about eight months ago. I had to go to the emergency room.

I'm a little worried about – I mean, I'm on medicine and stuff. You're taking medicine and stuff. Yeah, blood pressure, cholesterol. I'm rehearsing a lot, and I walk around and stuff. I exercise before these tours so I can not collapse on stage and make a fool of myself. But it's a real thing. It's a real thing. There's a couple songs. If I sing, I've got to practice where I breathe because if I don't, my head gets lightened. That never happened in my 20s. I was also doing just the amount of chemicals I was adding to my body. It's changed, you know, but I just couldn't handle that now. It's going to be an attempt to do just do what we do. And we, you know, probably play 25 songs, play about an hour and a half, maybe more than that. And it's sweaty and, you know, jump around and all that. But my throat is so different than it used to be back then. And I had, you know, so I've just had I'm a little more reticent just because it. I had the micro fold stuff in 2003 or something. Oh, you did? I didn't know that. Like the surgery. Yeah. Well, it's surgery. I guess they put you under, but it's real. It's not that. Surgery is a strong word for it. I guess it is a surgery, though. It is. It is. Because they take the scissors and they have it. It's like a gun and they stick it in here with a tube and the light goes down and they cut it with scissors. It's a semi-invasive procedure. Yeah. But you're put to sleep and then we wake up in a couple hours and it's like. My throat hurts a little bit, but it doesn't hurt. See, I think when you have the nodules on the back. Yeah, you have nose. Nodes, nose. That's the sign of success to me. All the best singers have had to have that surgery. That's a goal for me. Yeah, Eric, I'm sure your fingers are calloused from years of shredding on that Jazzmaster, right? It's the same thing on the throat. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. I mean, so are you, you know, I feel like you've done every stage of touring from, like, you know, a Honda Civic to a van to the bus to two buses to the plane. Like, what are the comforts that you require now as an elder statesman? Very low maintenance. Very low maintenance. We're going to take a, I just.

It's almost like a car for me. It's like the less stuff that can break, the better. My favorite way to tour at this point is just in my Subaru or my van by myself doing solo shows. Just so you don't have to be like, hey, what do you guys want to listen to? And you can just listen to it every one. That alone is worth it. Yeah, exactly. And I think just sort of your mental health. I'm quite introverted, so I have about... four hours a day where i can be nice and and then you know if i if i drive all day by myself and i show up at seven i can be nice from seven eight nine ten eleven maybe till midnight four or five hours and then after that you'll see me if i've just finished playing it's 11 o'clock and it's time to go that's when you talk about people coming up to you and Being nice and you're like, man, I just – I'm going to – This happens to me too. This happens to me too because we do shows. We do live shows. And I – Jason loves to talk to the fans and have his little fun and drink his little drinks and stuff. And I'm unable to do that. It's called community building and storytelling. But, yeah, so it's like you guys – like when you hear about – oh, at 11 or at midnight, I turn into a pumpkin. I got to get home. Right. And you guys are saying I turn into just a cunt? Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah, I don't actually don't. I just get really quiet and withdraw on them, and I just sort of – Okay. You go back into introversion mode. Yeah, people just sort of talk to me, and I just stare at them. Back in the day when you were enjoying more chemicals and substances, did alcohol help with that? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It was almost like a miracle drug, wasn't it? It was great. Yeah, it was great. I like people, though. I'm not a misanthrope. So, like, those four hours, I'm able to do it. I actually enjoy people. It's just my tank is on empty, you know. Yeah, sure. I don't know. I feel like I'm a little nervous because we're all going to be in a sprinter van, seven of us, you know. And I love all these people that are going, so it shouldn't be a problem. They understand me. They're not going to, you know, these are all people that know me extremely well. Seven adult men and a sprinter is an interesting choice. Well, yeah, it's a horrible choice.

But I guess it's good if one of you guys loses your reading glasses, there's another pair sitting right there, you know? Yeah, exactly. You're wise. Well, Eric, let us know if this is an uncomfortable question for you, but you mentioned some chemicals and stuff like that. A lot of times when we have musicians on the show who have had years of performing and partying and stuff, we like to ask them their top three. favorite prescription pills of all time? No pills. No pills? No, never pills. It was always alcohol and cocaine and cigarettes. The big three. Damn, you're a real one, bro. Yeah, that's the big three. That's the only good ones. Well, for me, they were, and obviously, I'll drink a little bit now. The other two were, I mean, I would just have a heart attack. My heart is so, my genetics are so. You've got to live to be 40. You're like, I would literally die. I would literally die. Yeah, I would. I would. And I enjoyed it so much, and I love it. It wasn't like, I've got to stop this because it's making me, I don't know. I loved it when I stopped. It sucks. I've stopped this. Did you stop smoking? Did somebody hypnotize you, or did you just kind of peter out? I quit a lot. I had practice quitting. I actually finally quit when I was 37. I started smoking when I was about 14. Started trying to quit around 30 or 31, 32, and I would just quit for weeks and quit for a month and quit for two months and then start again. Yeah. And then finally, when I was 37, I was actually at Central Park. I was opening for Nico. Nico Case, I was opening for her at Central Park. And I had a friend named Harrison Cannon who was in a band called Gieser Lake. And I was 37, and he and I found a cigarette, and we started smoking it. And it was that moment. Something just went off. I was like, man, this tastes like an ass. I don't want to do this anymore. It made me feel bad. And it was kind of a great moment because it was the moment I could definitively say, I think I'm done with this. You felt it in your bones. This one's going to take. And I tried. Well, Butrin and I did all kinds of stuff like that. I say all kinds of what I did pretty much. But that didn't work. So I think it was in my head. I just had to make up my mind. What are some non-pharmaceutical ways that you've used to sort of...

regulate that stuff then well uh your brain how much how much are you meditating in athens is the question i have a i've had help you know therapy and stuff like i don't know if you're being serious i don't know but uh no no no being serious being serious uh yeah but uh fair question though yeah no it isn't yeah no and that's a it's uh i haven't uh the the therapist that i i go to uh and he at the very beginning of the whole thing i was like i really don't want to have to take any drugs yeah I don't want to have to. And he says, well, we'll cross that. He didn't say no. He's okay. He didn't say that. He just said, we'll see. We'll cross that bridge. Give it some time, chief. Yeah, exactly. I want to do it with no drugs. Okay, good note. I say no pills. I generally don't like pills. I've certainly tried just about everything. But I have too many friends that did these things from a doctor's prescribing them, and they never went back. I think my big fear is I don't want to stop writing. I don't want to stop writing. I think a lot of the things that I think work. This is what I told the therapist. I don't want to take something and all of a sudden I'm feeling less anxiety. But now when I sit down to write, I just don't. Because that happens to a lot of people. A lot of my friends that are creatives, they don't. Creative people, they don't. they couldn't be creative it dulls the edges in a way that that kind of makes yes your output suffer and i've heard that as well for sure i mean yeah that writing process if you use it sounds like you're using that writing process as a healthy way to get this shit out of you absolutely that's exactly what it is except it's just a it's probably a difficult thing though i think it is but i i don't know any other way to do it so i think what happened during the pandemic was uh this happened to a lot of people i think uh the thing that i had developed to to helped me to assist me with this stuff was taken away because i couldn't tour and i couldn't and i didn't write really much during that time because i was taking care of my dude my little guy and uh and my wife was working in an icu with all these people that was a pretty heavy thing she was dealing with she was really working yeah she was that's right and uh and so i just lost everything that gave me self-esteem and gave me a sense of what i was you know in terms of how i defined myself everything was just gone

So I was like, I'm taking care of a kid, and I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't have any confidence, and I just felt sort of lost. So when I went to get help, it was great because the guy was like, yeah, you need to figure out a way to do that again because that was working, and that's what you can do. He's like, all right, eat drugs, yeah. You could just Venmo be 250, but, yeah, you should just write songs again, bro. I think that's, like, it's, you know. Yeah, if you can figure out a way to cure COVID so you can get back out on the road, I think you're going to be in a good place. That's going to be the thing you need to do, yeah. But it was good to hear an outside source say that so I could bring it home to my family and say, look, man, I got to do this. I got to do, you know, because it was like, you can just stay home. I'm like, well, no, I can't stay home. I really can't. Doctor's orders, babe. Yeah. So that was helpful. Yeah, but you guys got along. There was never bad blood, right? It was just kind of like, I'm going to do this other shit, you guys are going to do your shit, and we're going to reunite when the time is right? There was no talk of reuniting. I think it was a true exhaustion, and people were just like, we're done, man. And there was no animosity towards people. We were just done. In my mind, I was like, well, that's fine. I can do other things. I'll just keep going. I didn't necessarily want the band to end, but it was fine because I knew I was going to keep going. But I feel like... when it ended, we all thought it was done because we were so burnt out, you know? Yeah. Uh, and so the idea that, that we got back together really only happened because the time, the gap gave us the space to go, Oh, that was, these are great. These are people that like, yeah, I think that it's also like, I mean, look, man, the market is right. People love this shit, you know, and people also pay the beauty of, of like, I went to see pavement in Atlanta and, and, you know, it was just like, Everybody in there was spending money. Everybody's got jobs now. They're adults. They're happy to pay $55 for the ticket. They're going to buy the $15 IPAs. They're going to cop a couple T-shirts. It's like a better time to be doing this because...

You guys aren't the Grateful Dead or anything. I'm not having to take my private jet to the stadium, but it's the same. It's the idea of, oh, our fans that grew up with us have plenty of discretionary income now and can come do this in a different way than they could have in their early 20s, maybe. I like to see you guys capitalizing on that. Because it kind of reminds me of when I was a kid in the 90s and you would see all these... you know bands from 30 years prior doing these reunion tours and albums and i would go to you know the sam goody or the warehouse and look at some here's the new led zeppelin cd and you're like why it's just like some bullshit and they would still tour and do these huge shows and make all this money but it didn't feel like a real grassroots community the way it does now thanks to the internet where You don't have to be the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin or Stevie Nicks to do a reunion tour and make a pretty good amount of money, and you can have your thousands, not millions of fans, and get out there, and they all know that you're playing. They're all connected, and like Chris said, they all have a little bit of extra cash, and they can buy that hoodie. Yeah, I think you're speaking to something that people assume. maybe because of my age or whatever, that you hate the internet or that you think, you know, it was better back before. Community was so much better back then. But there's really, there's so many benefits to it. Like exactly what you're saying right now, like I wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to do half the stuff if it weren't for the way things are now. I know you lost your royalties and your record sales to some degree and Spotify is not paying you enough and all that stuff and all that's true, but there's other aspects of it that are quite benevolent to the smaller artists like us. You guys do a lot of – did you do Letterman and all that? Did you do all that stuff in the 90s? No, we didn't do it in the 90s, and we didn't do any of it. I've done that stuff. The Archers did Fallon, and I've done Fallon and Letterman and Conan with Nico. I was in her band for years.

Nico Case, and I've done a few of those shows, but the Archers have never, I mean, we're just right below it. That's so strange to me because I'm a big, I watch a lot of late night performances on YouTube. That's my main. what i do on youtube besides my chiropractor videos i don't want to bore you with that but um the i think the point that chris is making is there's been a lot smaller bands that somehow yeah that's exactly my point that's exactly my letterman performance than you guys yeah it's like i'm i'm sometimes i'm like oh wow this is like a blip on the like early 90s kind of gold rush major label radar kind of thing you know like only i know about this band yeah i mean it's like i'm looking for uncle to like uncle tupelo has played on fucking you know what i mean it's like kind of crazy to me yeah i think that explains why eric said actually no we've never been asked to play on that yeah i feel like i feel like well yeah i feel like uh up and comers it's easier for up and comers if they got a label support and stuff they get it's all it's all yeah yeah And we're not up-and-comers, obviously. But even back then, I think we were not – you know, it's a weird thing. Even at our height in, like, 94 or 5 or 6 or something at that time, we would play New York to 2,500 people or whatever it was. And we'd still be playing in Indianapolis to 70 people or whatever. You know, it was never – it never went past that, you know, threshold for us. But you guys – I feel like you guys had some MTV support, though. Yeah, they had a little bit. We had – Beavis and Butthead. Oh, really? I mean, that's more of a badge of honor than Letterman. Bro, this is sick. Back in the 90s, that'll move more units for sure. So you're saying Beavis and Butthead are sitting on the couch and they're making fun of an Archers of Loaf video? They may have spoken of it favorably. They don't make fun of all the videos. Sometimes they go, this is sweet, actually. Yeah, I mean, it was a pretty...

Poor video. I mean, we were so young and we didn't know what. We were just like, I don't know what. What is this? And we made this video. We didn't like it. We didn't like the video. We don't like any videos. Here's our new video, guys. We don't really like it that much, but check it out. That's true. Except for scenic pastures, that's true for pretty much every video. We just don't like them. We don't like to do them. We've never liked to do them. And people always want, let me do a video for you. It'll be different. You're like, no, it won't be different. We don't want to do it. You're dealing with a difficult person that's not going to like what you have for your ideas. I'm difficult. I love it. I love it. I back that. I think music video, I just am like, I think there was a heyday of them being really important and crazy. And the fact that they still get made is really interesting to me because it's basically only for YouTube algorithm purposes and not necessarily for creativity purposes. It's changed. If the song's good enough, it sells itself, I'd say. I think the mistake is... I'm saying what I'm saying. The mistake is you should hold your ground. We're not doing one then. But we were always like, okay, we'll do it. We'll do it because you get so much pressure to do it. And then we do it, but we're not really into it. So it's just never ends up being good, you know? So you don't exactly remember what Beavis and Butthead had to say about your video? What's the deal with this short dude? Yeah, I don't know. Is he like in the band or is he just like some weird dude? Really? It's like all these videos now, they like just get a couple of weird dudes and I just shake the camera around and just like do a bunch of crap. Yeah. They need to get back to the basics, like chicks in bikinis and explosions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of cars, like, and they're all driven by chicks in bikinis. A big thingy. Yeah. Now that's what I call a buzz clip. I don't really remember. It wasn't entirely negative, though. It wasn't positive, either. It was just sort of there making fun of some of the stuff that was happening in the video, you know, so. but not necessarily the band. That's a great badge of honor, though. I think that's very funny and cool. I even sort of forgot about that element of the show, but that was the show. There's such cultural artifacts now that I forgot that there was even a purpose to them at one point, or they had something they did. Yeah, a cool band, they would play some green jello song or a Dinosaur Jr. video and be like, this fucking rocks.

and then they'll play a terrible pop song, one-hit wonder thing, and then they make fun of it, and all is well in the world. That's right. Another thing we do on the show often, Eric, is we ask musicians if they ever had a big sync, a licensing deal. where they got a substantial amount of money for allowing a corporation to use one of their songs, or maybe if they passed up one because they had some ideals as a younger person. Yeah, if you were too punk and cool and you turned down that $300,000. Right. Well, unfortunately, these days – And now you cut yourself because of that. A band at any level of band that I'm in doesn't get the $300,000 thing anymore because it's so watered down. There's so many artists that will do it for free. No, no, no. The archers didn't get licensed very much. My So-Called Life, and we have a thing in Mall Rats. I've never seen Mall Rats. So sick. I've never seen either of these shows. That's quantity, not quality. Or quality, not quantity. They're two amazing singles. Bro, you've never seen My So-Called Life? Not the episode or songs. I've seen the show, and I'll just turn it. I mean, I'm not the demographic. Well, Eric's been on record for being pretty against Season [redacted address] through. I don't even know. I just don't think arc B really worked that well in season three. I didn't get it. The development wasn't there. That's good. It was few and far between, but those were culturally iconic content platforms in the 90s, for sure. I don't know. I'm so out of the loop. You're saying this stuff. My so-called life is literally a touchstone for I would say, like, a very large demographic of teenage girls as, like, the style of it, the storyline. Jordan Catalano is, like, the hot 90s guy. I could understand how you wouldn't believe us or think that we're being sarcastic, not only with our deadpan nasally tone, but also, like, you're telling me my so-called life is good and cool? And culturally important, like, yeah. And culturally important? Yeah.

Just, like, that's how dire youth culture is nowadays to where they're just, like, this show that was on the CW network, like, I build my life around it. My so-called life pushed the envelope, though, because there was, like, a gay character that had a huge role. It was, like, pretty ahead of its time. Right. But they also pushed, like, Buffalo Tom, like, super hard, you know? Right, right. It was probably a miss if you look back on that kind of the whole landscape. But yeah, that's a very culturally relevant show. But I'm saying I think shows like that will get re-fetishized every generation for almost a different factor or something that we don't even recognize as important. But yeah, it's still hitting. Yeah, I wonder, Eric, as somebody who has been around the block a little bit longer than we have, we pay attention to trends and all that stuff a lot more than the average bear. I think after a while, when you've seen so many of these trend cycles and things go in and out of fashion, you believe everything and nothing surprises me anymore. Does that happen to you? Are you still like, what the fuck, this is popular? Yeah, I do feel that, but I also feel that I've never been, even when I was younger, that I was never in tune with the things that were going on in my generation. I just wasn't in tune with it even then as much because I just didn't. I just was sort of, as a kid even, I was into what I was into, and I was hyper-focused on it, and the world would have happened around me, and I was still just hyper-focused on what I was doing. And that was very true with music as well. So you were listening to music of yore, or just like different music that none of your friends were listening to? I listened to the Baja Marimba Band and Russian Cossack music, and then Donato Sour Jr., or even just Frank Sinatra, something really not cool for my generation to listen to. This is a very schizophrenic palette of music selections. Yeah, exactly. And so I knew what was going on musically, I guess, because it was my world.

I always felt when I came into a conversation, like, well, these guys are talking about some stuff that is modern, and I don't really know what's going on right now, so I just won't say much. I just always felt like I'm a moron. I don't even know how to do the Macarena. I'm going to sit this convo out. Yeah. I don't know the steps. Jason, I don't know the steps. I haven't practiced the steps. I don't know. Lord knows I've tried. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. I mean, I think that... I think that there's some people that subscribe to that kind of thinking now, though, that I hear about, where it's like if they're working on an album or working on a film or a book or whatever it may be, they purposely kind of shut off the outside world as to not be kind of influenced by it. Like when Julia Fox is writing a book, she says, don't text me. Exactly. Don't text me, you guys. I'm going to be writing my book for the next week. But you have to block out this stuff so you don't get influenced by it. much harder to do nowadays than it was kind of, you know. Well, yeah, I mean, that's like the whole, like to do music now, if, you know, the amount of content you need for your Instagram page or your Facebook or whatever, whatever it is you're doing in a TikTok, whatever. If I knew that I would have had to have done that, I don't think I would have done music. because it's just so not about music. So you're saying to me that Merge is pushing Archers of Loaf to get the TikTok popping, and you're still going to power through. No, Merge is the one best, you know, that'll let you kind of not do it. I mean, they'll just let you do what you do, and there's certainly, you know, you can have help, you know. Yeah. And that's what I kind of have landed, just because I can't do it. I just don't have time. I'm trying to work on songs. and trying to just do that call me crazy i'm a musician who is working on making music yeah it's too i know it's crazy i know it's crazy yeah it's wild but stick with me so for me yeah i just couldn't i just can't uh right i know yeah so if you if you knew going into it like as a new musician in 2022 they're like all right yeah your music is great it's so awesome we just have to work on your cinematography skills your hair and makeup skills your hip-hop style jazz dance

Yeah. You have to have perfect fashion wardrobe, cultural takes. You have to be gay and straight and everything all together. You're like, okay, this is. But there's kids today that came up, the younger folks, they grew up with it. So for them, they can just go. They do it and they can do it. And I'm like, my hands are too big, too big for. Fucking iPhone anyway. It's like I'm sure your kid is much better at using the iPad than you'll ever be. Yeah. Yeah, he is. He's good at that stuff already. That was a trick question. You let him use an iPad? I'm disgusted. We let him watch porn, man. It's good. It's fine. We said fuck it. Eric, wow, what a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on How Long Gone Today. It really has been a blast. Thank you so much. We've been listening to your music for a very long time, so it was fun to chat. I love it. It was so much fun. Yeah, it was great. You guys are killing it. Thank you guys so much.