357. - Bob Lefsetz

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Oh yeah, them jeans. We're back for a wild weekend edition of How Long Gone. A little special treat for the dedicated listeners, especially those in the music business or the media space. I don't want to get into that just yet. How are you feeling? I'm feeling good. We are doing a lot of pods this week, just the way the scheduling cookie crumbles. More work for me, but... That's totally fine because more pod for you guys. Yeah, Jason just gives and gives and gives, and it's one of your best qualities, I would say. I'm sure you would agree. I can't turn it off now, and before I used to not be able to turn it on. Oh, I see. So you're saying this podcast has helped you develop ambition? Is that what you mean? Yeah, that and stick-to-itiveness. Don't hear that word too much anymore, do you? Not to be on my Willie Staley. No, you don't. Yeah, the stick-to-itiveness, just doing something now because when it's done, then I'll be able to really enjoy myself and relax. Stick-to-itiveness, that word reminded me of that clip you sent of Joe Budden mispronouncing ableist on his podcast talking about the Lizzo. scandal how did he say it can you can you when he was pronouncing it he was he sounded like he was reading the the wine list at mother wolf it was like the the 2011 ablist yeah he said it's a little minerality up front and then you'll get a little plum at the end yeah he said

It's like Future's DS2 artwork being from clip art. It's pretty cool for Joe Budden not to know what that word is and not care to look it up. Well, the thing is he knows what that word is, but to enter the mind of Joe Budden, which is unfortunately a thing that I feel confident in doing, he knows the word, he's heard the word, he's said the word, but when he reads the word ableist... The kind of rudimentary brain tells you a belief. So he just doesn't do too much reading is the problem. I disagree. I mean, well, I don't disagree. I definitely don't think he does too much reading. I mean, he's reading rap. Rap.tv headlines. I don't think he's reading that much, but I also don't think he's said that word before. Yeah. That's where we differ. I think it could go either way, 100%. It could go either way, but I did want to talk about an experience that I had yesterday, thanks to our friends over at Biologique Recharge. Well, I can also talk about it too, Chris, because I had a facial the day before. I was going to ask, did you go to the same place I went, the house? I was up at the house. Okay. We were at the house. I thought so. It was a unique experience. I'll tell you that. But I hadn't had a facial in probably 10 years, if not more. I don't really like them, if I'm being honest. I like a facial, but I don't like an extraction. It makes me cry. Tears of pain. Well, luckily... You might like that, actually, with your freaky eyes. Well, luckily, they don't do it. That's not part of their program over there. No. So what I want to get at, this is beyond the point. It was excellent. I look great. I looked better yesterday, of course. She's glowy. But I was... I was talking after I woke up, because did you fall asleep a little bit? I did fall asleep. Same, same. So if we fall asleep a little bit, I wake up, and I'm making a little bit of small talk with the esthetician. And I'm like, look, how old do you think I am? Based on looking at my face up close. You asked that question? Oh, that's right. I asked the question. That's cool. She said probably like late 20s, early 30s. Alex is next to me. She lifts her middle finger up. I can see it in my peripherals.

And I excitedly say, that's crazy, I'm 39. And then she calls over another esthetician to look at me. Oh, really? To say, this guy's 39. Isn't that crazy? And then she asks what I did to do this. And, Jason, the answer is going to upset you. Well, I know what the answer is. Cetaphil slash nothing? No, the answer is water, sobriety. Two things that you could never achieve. Two things that I disavow on a daily basis right now. Exactly. So what I'm saying is the reason you look your age is because you don't treat your body the way that I treat my temple. And if you want to reverse the curse, not only can you get an hour and a half facial at a house in Coldwater Canyon, but you could also maybe take a second look at drinking water. Yeah, I'm all set on that. But when I went in there, I was – Okay, okay. I'm just telling you. No, I mean obviously that – you have to hit the fundamental roots. What goes into the body is what ends up making you look how you look. blah, blah, blah. But, you know, you do look great for your age. You have great skin. Obviously, you know, she was adjusting your age for inflation and all those things, you know, take a couple years off. And look, I would say that obviously I was being gassed up, but this was a free treatment because they were training the estheticians for the new Biologique Recharge location that's opening up just across from Catch State over there on Mero's Place. The fact that she called a second opinion over, that leads me to believe that maybe she was really actually thinking you had great skin and not just blowing smoke up your ass. I thought she was laying on a little thick, but then I realized there wasn't even an opportunity to tip in this environment. I sent a follow-up text. Don't worry. Oh, did you? Yeah, to let them know that I didn't have any cash on me, but I wanted to know. Could I send a digital?

Does my esthetician have a Venmo? And Danny said, no, no, no, we don't tip that. Okay. I love Danny. Thank you. Thank you to Juliana for hooking us up with that. But yeah, I think that it was your experience. Good. Cause you know, they ask if we were, if, if I was, um, if I was claustrophobic and I was like, I'm not in an elevator, what the fuck are you guys worried about me for? And then I realized it's because they, they mask your, your face to the point of your, your mouth and eyes are covered with masks. Yeah, it was, it was like, uh, like I, getting some gauze in the burn water, like doing some Hollywood movie mask makeup. I could have been a little troublesome, but I was fine. I felt a little bad because I showed up a few minutes late. I got stuck behind a truck coming up over the hill. You know how it goes, man. I know, yeah, of course. So I was kind of in a rush. So I basically walk in the door, and within 60 seconds, they're like, all right, take your clothes off, lay on this bed in the middle of a living room, and there'll be two strangers. facials right next to you. I like that. There's a little bit of a shock value going into it, really. Yeah, I don't like being in some... fake relaxing room with elevator music playing and like i don't like any of that like if i i just would prefer to be in an area where the job is getting done and feel like work is happening kind of helps it i think it helps me relax weirdly so even even when you're in a facial appointment with some spa music playing and you're getting some serums rubbed on your face it's the most relaxing situation you can be in you still want to feel like people are working in your peripheral area. Well, I don't mind hearing a little hustle and bustle in the background. You know what I mean? It's almost like ambient noise, something that I know you love. The clacking of a MacBook Pro sort of lulls you versus the opposite. That's right. I really did not. I mean, I think it's interesting to see kind of behind the curtain of how this stuff all works as well. You know what I mean? Like how the training works and stuff. I think that was interesting. I got to see how they make the P50.

It was crazy. It smelled like shit. Yeah, she was like, are you familiar with the products? I'm like, yeah, I smell this shit in my house all the time. It's awful. But it works. You know, I get it. It works. And sometimes you've got to do that. But I'm glad that we both – Of course it works. I'm glad that we're both glowing, especially for this bonus episode because, you know, I need to look my best for Bob Lefset's, Jason. For Hollywood's best, yeah. You were talking earlier about a glimpse into what your future might be like, and I really feel like he's an old, like he's just you in 20 years, not like 100% match, but high enough to where we're flagging this. We had to flag it. You can study his life. You know, there'll be many through lines for what you're doing when you're 60. Yeah, I mean, I've been a subscriber to, I mean, Bob, all you little shitheads that started your little newsletters during COVID, if you don't subscribe to Bob, you ain't really about this newsletter shit. And that's off top. He started his newsletter in 1986, and he would literally type it out. Print it out on an Apple laser printer. And mail it. And then just mail it to your house. That's basically a newspaper for you Gen Z. You know what I mean? I mean, I thought I was old. No, no. This shit makes me feel like a Zoomer listening to him talk about that shit. It's some different shit, but I've been reading Bob forever since I was in the music business. And all joking aside, if you're not familiar, it's a pretty incredible thing to subscribe to because unlike other, he just kind of shoots off. shit when he feels like it. There's no rhyme or reason. There's no every Tuesday and Thursday you're going to get this. You get six left sets, dispatches per week whenever he fucking feels like it. And it can be about anything from fucking Fauci to the Eagles to the weekend. You know, the guy will touch on kind of anything. And whether you agree or disagree, I think that the output is impressive and it's something that makes me feel...

kind of tapped in, even though he is 100 years old. Yeah, there's some through lines with Bill Maher kind of thing where you'll watch it, you won't agree with a lot of what he's saying, but if you're kind of an older guy and you like the peripheral entertainment industry, you kind of got to watch to catch some of the inside stuff. But my favorite part about it, which makes his newsletter seem really unique nowadays, is... it's not there's zero monetization there's no ads there's no paywall there's no patreon so there's some something really special and freeing about reading content from somebody who's only doing it because they want to not because they're trying to make it their career anything and i mean and and because of that it is his career you know what i'm saying like because he did that's right he didn't go the corny route he's been able to maintain for this long and like you know i mean It's the classic love him or hate him. You have to pay attention to him a little bit, I think. And that's what we're going to do. So let's tap in with the Triple OG and see what he has to say about all the important stuff that we talk about all the time. I'm sure he really cares about the menu changes going on at San Francisco Bungalows, stuff like that. So we need to kind of figure out his take on that stuff. What is Sweet Green Order is? And, you know, does he like a yellow peach or white peach in his salads? The list goes on. So let's tap in with Bobby left and bend over and let this man Remus for 60 minutes. Happy Pride, guys. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded.

Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf. TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world,

is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code. How long taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. You know, they focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. upgrade that look starting at just $34 you know if you get a nice linen suit a little t-shirt underneath it some chill shoes you're looking good but you're staying cool the inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties so elevate that summer wardrobe go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns even on a nice holiday now available in canada That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That will get you free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash how long. Bob Lefsetz, thank you for joining us on How Long Gone today, our humble little program, talking to the Triple OG here. Are you coming to us from beautiful Los Angeles? I certainly am. Yeah, we are. We're in L.A. as well. The June gloom is upon us, unfortunately.

But are you down by the beach? I did live in Santa Monica. A couple of years ago, I moved permanently to Mulholland area. Oh, okay. When you say permanently, how are you so sure? Well, I'll make it very simple. My girlfriend, I've been living in her house since 2010 permanently, but I still had my place in Santa Monica. But I let that go three years ago. Smart man. That explains it. I love that you have a girlfriend, and you're just letting go of the pied-à-terre, and you said, I'm not going to be a stick man anymore. I'm all yours, baby. True romance. True romance is still alive, and that's always nice to hear, no matter who you're talking to. So, Bob, we're both in Los Angeles as well. Could you guess what parts of town we're both in? We're both in pretty different places. Well, if you have June gloom, although it's pretty gloomy everywhere today, it's closer to the beach. So I'd either Santa Monica or... La Brea Towers. Oh, wow. Okay, okay. Nice wild card. Chris is close to the La Brea Towers. He's by the Erewhon over in West Hollywood, Beverly and Fairfax. Okay. Whereas I'm a Glendale girl, Bob. You didn't see that one, did you? Nope. I thought you said we're going to have some long answers today, Bob. I need some more than a nope out of you. Well, you know, you're not asking me questions that require any cogitation beyond yes or no. Look, Bob, I just read 5,000 words in an email from you about gas. So, you know, I figured you could go on. Believe me, I can go on. I have to feel stimulated, but you're talking about, I mean, if you want to talk about L.A. in general, in terms of where you live, et cetera. Not incredibly interesting. Not a lot of fat for you to chew on. We're just getting the wheels going. Don't worry, Bob. It was more of a can you guess where we live based on what we look like. You know what I mean? It's kind of where we were going with that, but you didn't take the bait really. No. It's okay. Like Chris said, you write a lot of words on email newsletters for a long time. Very infamous for our listeners who might not be familiar with your history.

and back catalog of work, but obviously years in the music biz through the decades, and now you're kind of a legendary newsletter man before Substack and any of that existed. Oh, absolutely. I'm always anxious of making radical changes so that when everybody was going to blog, I stayed with newsletter, and ultimately everybody came back to newsletter, and now with so much in the channel, it's so hard to build a fan base. I have the luxury of having done it for decades. Yeah, that's something that I think about as a podcaster. Chris and I, a lot of times people will be like, you guys got to do video. You got to do TikToks. Nobody wants just audio anymore. And part of me wants to be like, you know what? I think that's a trend or a fad, and I'd like to stick with audio only. What do you think about that, Bob? I would go to a more basic level. You have to be great. In today's creative world, you have to be great enough that... people will talk about you to others. That's the only way to grow. Hype doesn't work. Having said that, there's so much in the channel that it used to be up until like maybe 2010 or maybe 2012. Great would surface. Whereas today, 10 years later, it can be great and people can still not hear it. So you have to be in it for the extreme long haul. Well, hopefully we are. Jason and I get along pretty well, you know what I mean, which helps. But you're a solo operator, which I feel like... Absolutely. You got no team. You got management. What do you got? Nothing? Is it just... No, I mean, just like that. I mean, I have lawyers who do my deals and stuff like that. Bob, hold on. Don't you have a legal background yourself? Yes, we can get into that, but I was going to answer your question about being a soul guy first. So, you know, I was a guy who always said, I'm not going to get into computers until you can talk to them, which ironically you can do now. But in 1986, I wanted to start this newsletter, and I knew there were computers, and I ended up getting a Mac Plus and a laser writer, and I was unbelievably intrigued.

Now, today's computers are like cars in that you don't need to know how they work in order to use them. Whereas if you go back to 86, it's not like being on a PC, but this would come up on a regular basis. You would hit problems. So I really understood how the computer worked. In 1992, I got a free subscription to AOL given to me by Warner Brothers. I was given that by my mailman. Yes, but not in 1992 and not for free. Oh, he said, fuck you, Jason. I got a month for free, Bob. I got a month for free. My mommy paid for the rest, of course, once I got hooked. Well, wait, wait. I mean, just to get into it, I mean, if you want to get into it, okay? I do. 1995 was the summer of love in the Internet world. Just like 1967 was the summer of love for real in San Francisco. That is when people started to buy computers just to be able to participate and be online. Are you saying in masturbating or are you saying in just being on the computer in general? Well, you know, what's his name? You know, the late night host is no longer on late night. He said, you know, he described his computer as a four thousand dollar masturbation machine. That's right. That's right. That's right. And the price has only gone down a little bit. And but in any event, in any event, I'm going to answer your question through thread here is that I was very familiar with computers and I had a subscription to AOL that was free when everybody else was being charged by the hour. And I had a lot of experience. I was from 1995 to at least 2000. I was on the computer 24. Well, I did sleep such that I believe things need to be right. And let me say this in an inoffensive way. It's impossible to find people, not that I would hire them anyway, who were as skilled. When I deal with people on a technical level, etc., when there's a snafu, they don't know how to solve it because they just think the thing works. So not only am I a one-man band, yes, it's also because I'm operating on this edge where I understand what's going on.

I don't want any interference. As far as the email, it's all to me. I don't have anybody else do it. And it wasn't because I started out and said I'm going to be in a one-man band, but that's how it evolved. It's hard to find good help these days. I get it. So in 86, was your newsletter a physical paper that was mailed to people? What happened was I was reading Billboard magazine. Now, Billboard magazine goes up and down. At the time, it was terrible. In the early 90s, Timothy White took over. He died tragically of a heart attack at a young age. I was not a huge fan of him, but he improved the magazine. Right now, it's terrible again. I mean, it's consumer-facing. So I was reading a... Show us to all the people that work at Billboard listening to this right now. Do better. We can go deeper into Billboard, but it's not even worth talking about. Nah, it's not. I was reading Billboard when it was really, you know, insider focused, having a hamburger at a place that existed called Flaky Jake's at Pico and Sepulveda. And I said, this is just terrible. And I said, I could do a better job myself. And all of a sudden I realized, well, you know, they're computers, etc. And that's when I decided to do my newsletter. And it was in print until the year 2000. I have been at the cutting edge of a lot of stuff purely by accident. Everyone today knows about Internet hate. I would talk to my psychiatrist about this in like 2002. They would have no idea what I'm talking about. I could also talk about virality. I go to this conference in Aspen every year, and in 1999, in the conferences in December, so just before the year 2000, we got a contact list with email addresses for the first time. So I had this book about David Geffen called The Operator a weekend before anybody else. That's right. And I wrote about it. A classic book, if you haven't read it. And that's when I started to get this viral sensation to use a...

a term that references something else i remember the guy jefferson holt who used to be the manager of rem he starts emailing me and i go you know okay you're you're not paying for it or anything but and that's fine how did you get it he goes mark williams who's a famous a and r guy Mark Williams wasn't a subscriber or part of this Aspen group either. That showed me virality. I waited a year for everybody's paid subscription to run out. For five years, you had to email me to be on the list. I did not automate it until the year 2005. Once again, that brought up a whole new level of input and all kinds of other things. that I was prepared for after, you know, to this day, people are not prepared for Internet feedback. But I had five years under my belt before things went totally wild. How do you deal with it, though? Because, I mean, getting hate in comments versus getting hate emailed directly to your cell phone is a little bit of a different approach, you know? Well, let me answer another question first, and I'll get to that. So you asked me about the legal background. Yes, I am a lawyer licensed by the state of California. for two minutes after becoming an attorney, always wanted to be in the music business. But when Napster hit, I had a legal background and I became the expert. There's a lot going there, but that all came together in the year 2000 when I went online. Now, your other question about the Internet hate, at first you're shocked. I mean, it takes a while to metabolize. And then you understand it. The number one way to deal with it is you never, ever respond. Because first and foremost, that is what they're looking for. A lot of people are doing it just to troll you. You can never win. Once you light a batch of that gasoline, man, it goes on forever. But you publish a lot of responses that could be kind of maybe...

Hate is the strong word, but you publish responses to your readers, which is an interesting method that I respect, but it seems like it could cause some problems. Let's be a little bit clearer. It's one thing when someone disagrees with you. It's another thing when somebody disagrees with you vociferously. It's another thing when they attack. Your physicality, say they're going to come to your house and take action. These are different levels. No, I agree. I'm not going to come to your house and take action over an Eagles song personally, but I know some people really care, man. It's different, you know? Really, well, you know, what I always say is 10% of the public is certifiably insane. The only problem is... You don't know which 10% it is. Very interestingly, the people who send the lengthier, more cogent emails tend to be the craziest. You know, there's no set rules here. Right. But you cannot tell until you. I mean, I can talk about a lot of bad experiences. This is why, you know, I learned. I mean. You write something negative, and then that person turns their minions on you. You have to be really connected to be able to talk to the top dog to be able to take the shit off. So do you have Nicki Minaj's personal cell phone number to kind of get the haters off or BTS army leaders? Have you spoken ill of any K-pop group? Because I feel like those guys, their minions have the most venom from what I've seen. You know, there's Insider. And there's outsider. You're talking about outsider business. Let's go back to the days of MySpace because things are different now. Let me tell you something about MySpace, boy. Wait, you have to have a connection with the people who run MySpace such that when the people are breaking the rules on the platform, they can take them down. Now, let's be clear. If you are an average citizen, you have nothing to lose.

So these people are not threatened by being taken down by MySpace. They just start again with another name. So to agree, it's whack-a-moles. When I'm talking about taking action, you have to know the people who run these platforms. The game has changed a little bit now because it's really, you know, this has really moved on a lot to politics. And also, I mean, if you're someone who's a victim of hate. It tends to be a specialized person or a specialized group. And as I say, if you don't light a match to that gasoline or you don't add fuel to the fire, it dies out. They find somebody else to be concerned about. Great advice. Great advice. I'll do my best. Joe Rogan calls that post and ghost. Okay. Well, Joe Rogan, I've got a problem with because I don't believe in spreading misinformation. That's the scourge of America today. When will this podcast air, if ever? In the next couple days. Okay. Well, we're in the hearings of January 6th. So I track everything pretty closely. I went on the Fox News website today. I'm scrolling and scrolling. They don't even mention it. Now, my Twitter feed, I don't post much because I can reach people more directly in other ways. But I certainly read, and someone said that Ian Coulter posted anti-Trump on January 6th. And so I read it. She has a thing on Substack. I don't know how successful. But she was anti-Trump, but she also is further to the right. I don't really have any time for Ian Coulter. Further to the right, saying he did not execute on some of his promises. But I never used to read the comments on any of this stuff. But I have a friend, David Krebs, who was a huge manager in the 70s and 80s. He broke Aerosmith. ACDC had a partner, Steve Lieber. And he was telling me, very educated guy, got an MBA and a law degree. I mean, blue chip guy. And he says, yeah, he does read the comments of the New York Times and the Washington Post. So I start to read them a little bit. So I'm reading.

the comments on this Ian Coulter thing. They're all saying, no, you don't get it. There was fraud. It was stolen election. So there's like no hope here. This is one of them saying the opposite. So this expands. It used to be only people in entertainment lied. Now everybody lies. Yeah, I think everybody lies. I would agree with that. I mean, I was going to ask because, you know, You have a lot of hobbies, but you really digest a lot of information every day, which is something that I pride myself on as well. Are you a phone guy? Are you a computer guy? Do you kind of take some time off, or are you pretty plugged in all the time? My goal is to never talk on the telephone. Interesting. Telephone is a complete waste of time. I'm talking about, you know, I don't want to sound like a snob, but there's a... I'll tell you a good story. There's this guy who's unfortunately no longer with us, Peter Grossleif, big agent at W. William Morris. And, of course, that operation is now run by Ari Emanuel, of course, with Peter Whitesell, Patrick Whitesell, excuse me. Did you get invited to the wedding, Bob? No, I did not, but that's neither here nor there. Peter had a very rare illness that no one could diagnose. OK, so at the time, his brother Rahm was the bigwig in the White House under Obama. And he got it to the Peter's goal was to have the National Institutes of Health study his case, which is not that easy to do, according to him when I discussed it with him. So finally got the contact open because it's Ari and Rahm. He dials Rahm. Rahm picks up the phone and says, what do you need? People only call you if they need something. I would say, I would say, let me, let me counterpoint, counterpoint. I agree with that to an extent, but the point of the phone call and the beauty of the phone call is that if you answer it, there's nowhere to hide and you will get an answer if that is what you were searching for.

Whereas with the text message or the email, there can be not only a lag time, but also, oh, I didn't see it. Sorry, bro, that you can't really do with the phone call if the phone call is answered. I'm coming at it from a different perspective. Somebody calls me up. The first thing they've got to do is, how was your weekend? You want a little foreplay before they stick it in. No, no. That's what they do. They want to ask. They're the bro. They're establishing the relationship. How long do you have to talk before they get to the ask, which you are going to say no to anyway? I don't have that kind of time. What about when your girlfriend calls? You guys are out of town. You want to do a little check-in phone call. Is that different? You know, I have time for my girlfriend. I will say a lot of, you know, we're back and forth and I message on a regular basis. There are certain people who call who I will talk to. People who are in doing business who sit on the phone all day. Yes, you can gain information. That is not what I'm doing. I'm certainly privy to information, but for me, analysis is more interesting. You know, I still back the phone call. I think it's making a comeback, Bob. I think that's the reality. It's making a comeback. Okay, if it was making a comeback, now we're going to get an argument. How come Clubhouse disappeared from the map? Because that's stupid. That's different. Social audio is stupid. Making a phone call to friends, loved ones, or business associates. Well, let me ask you a question. How many hours a day are you on the phone? Okay, look, limited amount. No, no, no. As you said, when it's a call, you get a direct answer. How long a day are you on the phone? I would say under 10 minutes if I'm doing it right. No, no, no, no, no. If you add up all the amount of time you're on the phone in one day. You mean talking on the phone or texting? A phone call from when you wake up to when you go to sleep, how many minutes total for the day? Oh, less than 10 because I'm getting the answers. That's what I'm saying. Less than 10 minutes for the whole day? Yeah. You probably go days without talking on the phone, Jason. Okay, then we're on the phone.

same path i mean i don't know where the disagreement here if you say you talk on the phone 10 minutes a day that's like almost like not talking on the phone at all but i'm saying that people i think people know not to call me with their little play play bullshit they know that if they're calling me it better be about money and that's the difference you know what i mean there's no time there's no time for pussyfooting there's no time for that that like warming me up you know good for you I wanted to quickly, you know, Bob, I'm a long-time subscriber of the newsletter, and I used to be in the music business myself. And I have actually responded to you before, and there was a little back and forth with us on the newsletter where you published my response. What was the response about? Well, Bob, I used to manage a band called Cartel. I don't know if you remember them. Yes, I do, but that was a long time ago. That was a long time ago, but we did a reality television show called Band in the Bubble. I remember. There's two sides to this story. There's the content of what you're talking about, but I'll also say, and people are not going to like this. I do not respond to email unless you're famous or I know you, because I've gotten too many bad experiences, because like I said, 10% of the public is truly insane. I connected with you prior to instituting that rule. So you just want to clear up that I'm not famous and we don't know each other. That's just what you want to clear up, kind of offer it. No, I mean, I remember the band in the bubble. I remember some of it. But you're trying to say there was some sort of heated back and forth. Oh, no, no. I'm not saying there was a heated back and forth. I was saying that there was a. I responded, you published it, people chimed in. It was not heeded necessarily. Okay. No, no, no. Listen, I read my email. I used to read every word. I don't read every word at this particular point in time. If a subject is interesting enough that the responses are interesting, I might print those. That's totally different on the volume of response. I printed something the other day.

And, you know, I wrote something and I got like, you know, 150 responses directly to me about that. It was not worth printing a mailbag. There are other things that are less universal, but what people have to say about it is very interesting. So it depends on the quality of the response. I love them. But my point is that looking back on this, unfortunately, I think you were right. And, you know, I just wanted to, you know, I know that you maybe don't take great pleasure in hearing that from a relative stranger. but I think you made some good points that a young Chris, possibly high on cocaine, was not able to kind of understand at the time. Well, there's two issues. Experience counts, but that old cliche, if you knew what you know now, you wouldn't even do things. That's right. So I look at it both ways. Yes, people can learn, they can gain wisdom, but certainly when you're starting out, what you don't know is your advantage. The number one thing I tell people when I speak to people who want to get in the music business is don't. That's right. Great advice. My goal is to tell everybody to say no because it's like that ACDC song. It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll. I remember going to law school. Very first day, a counselor stood up in front of me and said, if you're planning to practice entertainment law, You should drop out right away. I didn't want to go to law school to begin with, and I'm listening to that. I go, shit. I was someone who really needed to be in entertainment. Nobody else who I went to law school was. So if you really need to be in the music business, you're not going to listen to anybody. You're not going to listen to me. That's true. And you're going to find a way. But people who say, oh, there's a little glamour. I mean, unless you are a big muckety-muck. You have to be available 24-7. You know, working on the weekends and everybody gets fired. If the money's right. This is not a job for regular people. If the money's right and you hate your family, it sounds pretty good to me. It's not about the money. For most people, there's no money in the entertainment business. So why did you need to be in the entertainment business? Because, you know, I'm just going to hit the surface. I can go deeper if you want.

At the time, music drove the culture. Music does not drive the culture anymore. So you want to get closer to the Godhead. What's the Godhead now? Godhead today is primarily politics because democracy is at risk, and secondarily streaming TV. George Draculius, big record producer, now music supervisor, he did the first Black Crows, did a million things, just did a Mike Campbell album. I remember the first time I met him face-to-face. Maybe the second we were at Staples and he said, which is now The Crypt, said, you know, I used to have fights about records. When I get together with people who literally run these companies, they want to talk streaming television. They want to talk politics. They don't want to talk music. They can talk grosses and shit like that. But what are they passionate about? Yeah, so they're passionate about Stranger Things Season 4, but not the new Harry Styles. I don't love that, personally. I would not say they're passionate about Stranger Things. Stranger Things is a success, but it is not changing the face of the landscape. Something grittier will. Borgen, Gamora, the Bureau. There's plenty of shows here. I'm not talking about entertainment, even though all those shows are entertaining. Things that capture the zeitgeist. If you talk to, I mean, I won't mention names, but they're household names. They're going to first talk about the political situation because that's what's critical. Okay? So, okay, I was looking at the grossness. It's, you know, it stood out to me. The comedians were going clean. For those people who don't know, that means selling tickets, selling every ticket, essentially everywhere. Why are the comedians going clean? Because they speak. truth the musician stops speaking truth a million times you know the weekend okay he goes to work he's got an independent career he goes to work with max martin max martin's a great guy incredibly talented but that's not where you're going to push the envelope

Yeah, I agree. I just don't know if everybody in my life are people that I want to talk politics with. I could not agree more, but the question is what is driving the culture? Yeah, I think that music, I mean, look, we got this, we needed to talk to you about this. I'm sure you were up late last night on Molly listening to the new Drake album. You know, what's your take? A Drake drop, I would argue, might move the culture because everyone has to chime in on it. Drake moved the culture, was it in 2017? It was 2017 when he put out his mix album. That was something different. He was changing the format. In terms of content, nothing any musician has done in years has impacted the culture the way other things have an era. If for no other reason there's too much in the channel. Even as late as the MTV era. You were on MTV. Everybody in the world knew you. The biggest act in the world right now is Bad Bunny. There are a million people who are unaware of Bad Bunny. Harry Styles is number one. He's a very nice guy. Everybody involves a friend of mine, but I guarantee you at least 50% of America could not name one song title. That's just the world we're living in. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I agree with that. Shout out to Irving. I know you're listening. There's too much to be consumed, so we're all splintered. There's nothing that can truly capture the hearts and minds of the country in the way that it once could because there's just too much stuff. But if you want to do your best to capture the country, you have to focus on the zeitgeist, the content, not the penumbra, not the perfume and the clothing. That may be a business. This is now dated. But I think it was 13 years ago that Jay-Z put out an album that was sponsored by Samsung. Samsung gave them seven figures. And if you had a Samsung phone, you got the album for free. Well, he says great victory. If Jay-Z had written an anti-Samsung song, all hell would have broken loose. Not that I had too many problems with Samsung at that time.

But that is how you speak truth to power, okay? Everybody knows what the truth is. We live in a completely sold-out country where people don't even tell the truth in court anymore. So if you're a truth-teller like Chris Rock or somebody, everybody knows you. Yeah, but Chris Rock isn't funny anymore. Are you saying that he's switched to truth-teller, or are you saying that he's funny and also telling the truth? The latter. Do I think the very last special was as funny as the specials before? No, but he was batting at a very high level. And sometimes it takes a while for some of the stuff to sink in. I thought the latter-day George Carlin specials were not as funny as the earlier ones. Now that he's been dead for a while, he was just ahead of the game. It was some gallows, nihilistic stuff at the time, and now it's pretty milquetoast. Well, now it shows, well, he was right. Yeah, I think about that when I watch things like that, like the Carlin docs of certain people, any type of person, you know, comedian, musician, actor, whatever, they're kind of keeping their eye on 20 years from now. Fifty years from now versus what is going on right now. Well, I mean, I view it differently. I don't think anybody can see that far in the future. There are certainly cool hunters and other people make a living like that. But it's being tied into the zeitgeist and being beholden to no one. OK, then you're freed up to say the truth that no one else. You know, this is a phenomenal song by. Leonard Cohen. I happen to like the Don Henley version from the Greatest Hits album. Other people like the Concrete Blonde version. It's called Everybody Knows. Beautiful song. Everybody knows the truth. They may not say it out loud, but everybody knows. So now because politics is the zeitgeist, because our democracy is in critical condition, music is not the cultural driver anymore. In your lifetime, before you croaked, do you think that's ever going to turn back to the way it was? A couple of things. Music abdicated its power. But you have to understand, if you live through the so-called classic rock era, you live through the Renaissance. If you wanted to know which way the wind blew, you absolutely listen to a record. In painting and sculpture, there was only one Renaissance. But people painted and sculpted after.

So if you were alive at that time, they always talked about a new Dylan and new Beatles. Never came. So do I believe that will return to the era of the 1670s? Almost definitely not, because there were certain things that made that happen. It was post-war. People in the U.K. didn't have any money. There weren't other alternatives. You know, there was the youth culture, et cetera. Maybe just like the 90s, like you were saying, when MTV ruled the world, you know. Well, really, MTV was about the 80s, because they realized, I mean, this becomes... Too many factors. Too many factors. Tom Freston ran MTV through almost all these years into the 21st century. I remember when people were bitching, even at the Video Music Awards, that MTV doesn't play any videos anymore. And Tom, who's an incredibly nice, talented guy, tells me, we're never going to play videos anymore. That's an on-demand item online. Who's going to sit and wait for a video? Okay, people are nostalgic for an era that passed. So if you know television ratings, they're rated every 15 minutes. And it turns out that when you have video after video, the ratings are bad. That's why they started to come up with these half-hour shows. So really, the heyday of MTV was the 80s. No, no, no. You're right. I mean, I guess I watched it. I mean, we lived through the TRL era, so I was glued. Well, see, TRL era is something. Okay. Music business crashed in 1979. and you had corporate rock, you had bad disco, and it was resuscitated in 1981 by MTV. MTV created something that never existed previously, a monoculture, never since FM radio. The same hits were everywhere, okay, such that we now had top 40 on the FM. The first chink in the armor was the independent scene of the early 90s. Napster comes along.

We no longer live in a monoculture. So this is the irony of the Spotify Top 50. Yeah, they're the 50 most streamed tracks, but they've never meant less in society at large, okay? And people constantly, the major labels are focusing on the old paradigm, saying, well, this is a big, yeah, maybe it's big, but you're missing great swaths of music, these people who have careers. Yes. Can music return to a power? Listen, the ethos is different. A lot of it, you have to blame on income inequality and the bands come and go and the infrastructure stays the same. What you have to know about managers and agents, they only get paid if you work. So if you say, hey, I don't want to do that sponsorship, they don't get paid and they know the acts come and go that much faster. So to say no is very difficult. But in order to have credibility, you have to be able to say no. You have to be able to leave money on the table. I don't know if that many people can do that. I mean, that's why we got a Doja Cat Doritos song. But what you have to understand is these people are not artists. No. This is commerce with multiple people, okay, involved creating this for the market. An artist is sui generis, detached. From the everyday. Or maybe manipulating the everyday. Even Madonna. Who really tended to be on trans after. And blow them up. That was her artistry. Knowing how to freak out the public. And therefore had attention. Never mind the great artists of yore. So the big real reality TV show. Was in the year 2000. Survivor. Yes Real World was before that. And American Family was before that. Turns out it's a huge success. Everyone involved, I'm talking about on camera, now believes they're a star and tried to have a career. By the time we hit Jersey Shore, everybody knows I'm going to go on TV and then eventually I'm just going to go back to Poughkeepsie. This is a momentary thing. This is the bread and circuses for the hoi polloi. You cannot move up the food chain the way it used to be. And the other thing, of course, being...

In the 60s and 70s, if you were a musician, I'm talking about a successful musician, you were as rich as anybody in America, and in many cases, more powerful. You can't make Elon Musk money in the music business. Literally impossible. No, it's impossible. You're right. So if you're in it for the money, you've already lost. So you go, you know, we talked to that Samsung thing, okay, I was talking about. A friend of mine worked with Samsung. Their annual marketing budget was in nine figures. They could have lit a match to the money that they gave Jay-Z. So when you think you're ripping off the corporation, it's the corporation that's laughing. That's right. The corporations are always laughing. I say that all the time. We give too much. We believe that corporations care too much. People expect so much from these corporations. I'm like, guys, they don't care. I agree with all that, but the more interesting thing is if you believe you can pull one over the corporation when they're paying for whatever it is, your private appearance, your endorsement, sponsor, you're the one who's the product, not them. Oh, bang, bang. I want to get into some Los Angeles dining stuff, Bob, because I feel like you're out on the town, you're eating out. Not the last couple of years, but okay. That's your fault. No, it's not my fault. Just to go one step further, I have something which is the doctor thought she finally diagnosed and said, you don't want to look this up online. But I have a skin condition. And the way they treat it is with a drug called rituxan, which is a lymphoma drug. I do not have lymphoma. Lymphoma, you get it every two weeks. This, you get two injections every six months. How does it work? It wipes out your B cells. Okay, that's not good. When you get the vaccination, how does it work? It activates your B cells to create antibodies.

So I got the vaccination. It didn't work. Okay. And now it's 16 months after I got the initial vaccination. And they thought the B cells were going to come back in six months. I just have a few B cells. I just got the vaccination again two weeks ago. So how many times have you had COVID, Bob? No, I haven't had any because I've been isolated. I had the, what's your whoosie? It suddenly begins with an R. I had the antibodies the end of August. Then it turned out they didn't work for Omicron. Then I had Evushel for Omicron. Then you said you needed double the dose. So Mr. Chow delivery is just what it is now for you. Well, certainly the last. Thing you want from Mr. Chow is delivery because it's all about being here and being seen. That's right, Bob. That's right. But all right. If you're all right, let's say I'm glad we finally got you to crack a smile when you can shit on Mr. Chow. So what is your what is your because, you know, I've never seen you, you know, at Sunset Tower or San Vicente Bungalows or even South Beverly Grill. So we're in Dantana. What's going on? You know, I love Dantana's. I've been there a few times in the last 10 years, but really it was a 70s thing. Generally speaking, I don't want to go to a place that's a hangout. So, you know, if I can't think of anything, we'll go to Republique, you know, right there. What's that, you know, considered the best restaurant in L.A., just over by Paramount, just west? Providence? Providence. Love going to Providence. Can't say I go there all the time. Special occasion spot. Right. And Nobu, Nobu, Malibu is a little bit too much of a scene. But if you go late on a weeknight, you know, it's not that much. Can't be the sunset. You know, there are places that I will go to not to be seen. Not that, you know, there aren't some steakhouses wherever we all go where it's a hangout. But to go to Tower Bar or whatever or.

Craig's, I've certainly been to Craig's, you know, plenty of times. I'm looking for something, you know, prior to COVID and certainly have invitations, you know, I'm the type of person, I don't have to go out for my own entertainment on Friday or Saturday night. Generally speaking, I can go out to any restaurant. People are always in town. So when I go out with those people, I want to have a conversation. I don't want to go somewhere where, you know, yes, do you go places and end up knowing people? But that's not why I'm going. Bob, come on. Who doesn't like to go somewhere hot and be seen? Not my thing. I like to go somewhere hot that I hear is great because I want to check it out. Absolutely. Well, Bob, at what age did that happen? Because I know that back in the 70s, you were running around town. You know, having a nice little tootsky. 70s, first and foremost. 70s, it was cheaper. I was in a different space, and I literally wanted to go to every restaurant. It's like records. 70s, you could know every record. Nobody knows every record in the chart today. Literally impossible. Literally impossible to go to every restaurant. Right. Okay? Yes. You know, it's like anything else. Somebody has a connection so you can get in. Otherwise, you've got to wait months for a reservation at some of these places. Well, Bob, if that's the case, Jason and I are looking for a 7 p.m. at Nobu Malibu tonight. So if you want to text anybody for us, that would be great. I'll leave it at that. I don't want to say that I'm so heavy. I'm just stating the way it is. Yes, you have to know people. I agree. Everybody knows different people. I, generally speaking, don't like to use connections because then you owe a favor. There are certain people who are friends of mine, you know, it's a different thing. Or, you know, I hook them up. Hold on, hold on. What would you hook me up with, let's say? You know what I mean? If you say, Chris. No, no, it works in reverse. It's a little bit different. I say, Chris, you know, you know somebody, and I think there's some money there for me. Okay. Introduce me. Okay. Sometime in the future. It could be a day, a month, a year, ten years. You're going to call Bob. Yeah.

You know, you know somebody. I need a connection to that guy. I will not be able to say no. That's just the Hollywood rule. You did a favor for me. I have to do it. So therefore, I don't ask for any favors because it always comes back. You never want to be indebted. Right. Because I've had a couple of bad experiences. I mean, they didn't compromise my credibility. But I had a friend who he'd done a favor for me. He'd done a. This is how it works. I call him for a favor for a friend. It wasn't even me. Oh, no, that's where you fucked up. It ain't even for you. That's where you fucked up, Bob. That's the irrelevant half. It's Bush League, Bob. He then called me up to ask somebody to get for a job, and I knew those people didn't want to give him the job. Your hands are tied. And I felt I literally had to ask because this guy had done me the favor. And, of course, he said, no, we don't want to hire that guy. That's tough. That's tough. I do a lot of favors on a daily basis. I'm kind of known as a favor guy, but it usually, I don't know if it comes, I've never thought about it this much if it comes back to me or not, but I like to think it's a karmic retribution that I'm receiving. Wait, wait, wait. I do a lot of favors all day long. Most of the favors I do, people charge for, but I don't charge. Are you saying that you should charge us to appear on this podcast? Is that what you're trying to say? No, that's not my point at all. I am in a unique position that I know people in all walks of the business. Some unbelievably successful people are in their own vertical. They work at their label. That is a 24-7 job. Let's say they work at their label. They may not know someone who works for this concert promotion company. That's true. There's some separation. But they have an act. They want to work with them, and I know that guy. Believe me. Everybody charges for that shit or calls in a favor. That's just the way business works. I would love to see a price structure on kind of the left set's retainer model. You know what I mean? Like what's it going to cost to get Bob in your corner? Wait, wait, wait. It's not worth my time. This is going to come out wrong, okay? But it's not worth my time to do business.

for a low figure. First and foremost, when I'm doing business with me and you both, Bob, I feel you, bro. For me to do business with a real person, they have a budget for that and they can pay real money. Hell yeah. These other people say they want you to work with them. They are nobodies, and you quote them a price, they want to lower the price. And what they really want, most of these people, they don't want your advice. They just want your connections. That's right. I get bought for my connections all the time. My Rolodex is thick as hell. It looks like a phone book. Bob, did you learn all this stuff on your own, the hardware? Did you have left sets in your corner when you were a youngster? I learned all this the hard way, except my father, who was not like a member of the group, although successful in his own world, he always taught me, that if something looks unbelievable, look beneath the surface. Someone's driving a $200,000 car and you can't figure out how they're doing it. Either they're close to going bankrupt or they come from a rich family. Well, they could also be on TikTok. We're living in a slightly different era now. The people who come and go is a different... What we know about social media stars... is, except for a handful of exceptions, it's very lucrative for a very short period of time. And it requires full dedication. Are you on Instagram, Bob? I am, but I'm not. I'm posting once in a blue moon. Okay. So you're not putting selfies from vacation and kind of checking out, you know, not that kind of stuff. Just when you feel compelled and it's usually a business use. No, this is the same story. Someone stole my name. You have no idea what I had to go through to get my name back. Well, I'm sure you've got some connections at Instagram. Believe me, with the connections you have no heart. There's all kinds of logistical issues, okay? And then you have to post. I post just to make sure they know I'm active. Yeah, you've got to show them you're alive. You've got to pulse over there. You've got to have a certain amount in the checking account for them to keep it open. I was on early, not unbelievably early, 2010. This was just before it started to blow up. Relatively speaking, I have a lot of followers. I don't think it's changed in seven years.

because I rarely post, it's like 65,000, give or take. Not bad, not bad. Okay. Not bad. But what people don't, what I suddenly realized is you reach a small fraction of those people when you post. I reach more people than that when I hit send. Definitely. Why the hell? Why the hell should I be playing on Twitter or the same thing with Instagram? I have a direct line. Bob, what's the open rate looking like on those emails, Bob? I'm going to tell you something. I never tell because everybody lies and I don't lie. Okay, back in the pre-streaming era, someone tell you. I sold 100,000 independent records. How many did they sell? Probably 2,000. Math ain't adding up. I have a friend. This guy's got a bad – he's no longer with us. With EZ, he ran Ruthless Records. And he talked about being interviewed for a major publication. And they said, how many records did you sell Ruthless Records? And I think he said 40 million or 60 million. And the guy said – Wow, really? He goes, yeah. Then he looked at me and he goes, my company, my number. I like that. My company, my number. If you tell the truth, okay, people immediately cut it up. They said, well, that can't really be true. Like the Hollywood height. We assume to take two inches off the top. Right. I'm going to try that strategy with some of our advertisers. I've been doing that for a while now, Chris. The irony is people are yelling or lying about things that are quantifiable, whether it be politicians where they said something on camera or acts where you can look up the streaming. numbers right on spotify and see that they're lying so we're living in a slightly different era you know these lazy ass a and r guys don't even want to look they just want to open the email you know they don't care facts don't matter anymore bob facts don't matter so last question as we're as we're letting you go first of all thank you for taking the time to talk with us uh it's been a it's been a pleasure okay what do you do to kind of calm that left set's brain down i feel like there's something the hamster wheel's running

There's a fire inside of you. I don't know what it is, but I... I go hiking in the mountains very frequently. With earbuds? Or is that Mother Nature only? No, I'm connected with music and podcasts. Okay, okay. Well, just FYI, if you're going out today, we have a great back catalog of podcasts with some guests I'm sure you would recognize over here at How Long Gone. We had Kurt Viall on for today's episode. Give it a listen. Great. Out of all... I feel like you've been admiring, studying, judging broadcasters, writers, people that do what it is that we're doing right now, and you have a pretty high bar set for this. Who are some podcasters that you think... are really doing something unique, special, and great. James Homan used to have a daily podcast with the Washington Post. He now is weekly. He's still pretty good. The New York Times daily is good, but if you read the paper, generally speaking, they're repeating stuff. Same deal with the Wall Street Journal. How about any fun podcasts, Bob? Most of the people with fun podcasts are bad podcasters. First and foremost, it has to be interesting. And for a while there, I was hooked on a story podcast, but the one out of Canada from the New York Times where the guy said he was part of... you know, Islamic terror group turned out to be false. And then the very first season of, you know, the one... Not Serial. Serial, right. Then I couldn't listen anymore. So therefore, the ones that are from, you know, TV networks, etc., there's some people who are better... At this and others. And then there are some people where the topic is so interesting, I don't care that you're bad. Welcome to How Long Gone. Yeah, but I'm very into skiing. So there's one podcaster who interviews the people who run all the ski areas. Okay, a very niche podcast.

It's not that he's so great, but this is really deep information. It's good info. It's good info. Okay, so I'm talking about that. Somebody who's, you know, you're really into a niche. It's like, you know, Instagram. What am I looking at? Instagram, you know, it's called Great Planet or something, where they go to these really exotic locations and take pictures. Okay? It's never anybody you know. It's, you know, and you've never been there, but you think, fuck, I might want to be there. As far as people posting to enhance their career, you know, if this is well documented, they're putting up an image that doesn't really exist. And then. You know, you have David Geffen who was posting on Instagram that he's on his yacht during COVID. You know, some people are just out of touch. Look, I think that David Geffen's reality is different from mine. And if I had a yacht, that's probably where I would have been. No, no, no. That's not the interesting part. The interesting part is what people are out of touch with. Yeah. People, people with money tend to think they're in touch with everything. That's true. Hey, that's true. No one can be in touch with everything. There's just too much out there. And you have to be aware of what you don't know. So you don't step in it. I don't know everything. No one knows everything. So in that particular case, the interesting lesson was that he was not aware of the fact of the negative blowback. He was a supporter of the Clintons. Then he nailed the Clintons in an interview. He consciously did that. Okay. He did not consciously post about Instagram for the boulevard, but he learned his lesson. He stopped doing that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes the yacht is not the best for posting. And on that note, Bob Lefsetz, thank you for joining us on How Long Gone. Guys, if you want to subscribe to Bob's newsletter. What's the website, Bob? As my father used to say, just Google left sets, L like Larry, E like Edward, F like Frank, S like Sam, E like Edward, T like Tom, Z like Zebra, and I'm sure hopefully they'll spell it correctly in the description. It's free to sign up. It's totally automated. I don't want anybody reading who doesn't dig it. I don't put anybody on the list. If you put yourself on the list, there's a link at the bottom of every post. You can take yourself off the list.

It's totally up to you. Or you can go to the WordPress archive and read some of the past stuff, see whether you're interested. Really dig in, really dig in. And, yeah, once this COVID thing kind of really gets itself out the door, you know, we'll take you down to Nobu Malibu on us. You know, we have a corporate card. Sounds good. I'm sure you're used to that. You don't pay for a lot of dinners, Bob. Thank you for joining us. You bet. Take it easy. Everybody knows that the days are loaded. Everybody rolls. With their fingers crossed Everybody knows The war is over Everybody knows The good guys lost Everybody knows The fight was fixed The poor stay poor The rich get rich That's how it goes Everybody knows