721. - Father John Misty

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? New York, New York, New York, New York. Them jeans. in the big apple it's raining for the first time in what feels like six months i blame that on you uh how you feeling bro uh not great not bad uh you know just i mean i'm enjoying a beautiful view of cooper square but it is a little wet but there's still foliage the leaves is turning you know but we got an early pod we do have an early pod i mean i i think the um it's about 5 5 30 a.m TJ time, you know, with my mental West Coast clock going on. So it's a little tricky. Also, I feel like you had a few Cosmos last night at the Neptune Papers launch. It feels like I just saw you sipping on. I feel like I saw you with a Cosmo, and then I saw you with a lychee martini as well. Am I confusing that order, or am I wrong? You couldn't be more wrong. But you also couldn't be closer. It's like, I think there's a classic, I don't know if it was Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy or something, about watching porn. Don't look at the dick, look around the dick. And you were not, you were so close. And I know where you ran into some trouble there. So first of all, I did not drink a Cosmo, even though they were trepassed and cheeky and fun.

I don't really have any, because I was talking to Carolyn, and she's like, oh, you've never had a Cosmo? While she was enjoying one, and I was like, you know, I'm a grown-ass man. I don't really need to be, yeah, yeah, sex in the city cosplaying that hard. And she's like, well, if you've ever had, hold on to your hat, a vodka cranberry, then you've had a Cosmo. So I didn't have that, but then I got a martini, and they had the beautiful people at the Tory Burch store. On Mercer over there, they set up a martini bar, but it's not your average martini bar. This is a trend that we've seen before when we were doing our matches party in London. It's a real martini drinker's martini bar, and I think they had like five different olive options. They had caper berries, black olives, red olives, green olives, stuffed olives, and... The miniature pearl cocktail onion, which inside of a martini could resemble a miniature lychee or lychee, depending on how white you are. Once again, my eyes have failed me. I apologize for that grave, grave mistake. But I guess the point is, at that party last night, it was tough not to look at the dick. Because that's all it was. It was like Andy Barragani's wedding. It was every gay guy I've ever met. So it was tough. You can imagine my distraction. You can imagine my distraction. Yeah, there were many, many people at that event who seemed to just be on all fours on the ground waiting for something to happen. It looked like the scene in the Sebastian Stan Donald Trump movie where Roy Cohn invites him to a Warhol party and he opens the wrong door. And Donnie saw some shit he shouldn't have seen, bro. Yeah, it looked like when 3 p.m. on Monday when they finally turned the lights on at Bergheim and, you know, downstairs in the basement, basement. Everybody was dressed a little better than that. There were no collars or, like, leather vests that I could see. Yeah, everyone was dressed very well. It was a who's who of whose dick is this? And it was a pleasure to be in those walls. Pause. Yeah, I was like... But, yeah, we...

A little housekeeping. I'm staying at the Standard East Village. We're having our after party for our How Long Gone Live show this Saturday at Webster Hall. And loving the hotel. It's so nice to arrive in chilly, wet New York. Go to your hotel. Put your bags down. Go freshen up in the bathroom. Heated floors. Oh, yeah. Heated floors. Out of nowhere. Heated floors. Nice. That's some real Canadian shit. Oh, yeah. But when you got bread in Canada, you heat the driveway. So you never have to shovel. Heat the driveway. Damn, okay. That's big money shit. That's big money players shit. Are you listening, Rutsies? Set your money up. And apparently, Alex's mom said we're in Sharp Magazine, which I forgot that we were in. So I guess Canadians get to see it first. Oh, Canadians, go pick up the new issue. I'll go pick up the new issue. Well, I wanted to talk quickly about last night because I had a moment with Tori. birch birch not lanes i saw her no no no free tory i i saw do not free tory i saw her have to take kind of like an awkward three person um long arm selfie with someone and she saw me see it and she turned around and said that's not gonna look good for anybody and then wait wait wait sorry really quick so when you say an awkward three person long arm selfie that's tory in the middle her arms over either against shoulders no no i mean like a shod style 0.5 high angle kind of selfie you know she's like that's not gonna look for anybody but she brushes by me she touches me twice which i don't think means anything but it was just you know it was just nice that's all where did she touch you did she give you a little alexander wang style oil check Unfortunately, no. It was just an arm graze, but I'll take what I can get in the presence of greatness. She didn't squeeze the lychee is what you're saying. She did not. But she was talking to our agent, Max, and I was like, this is the time to get the flick. I think it'd be great for us to have this flick. I pussied out. Then we went to San Ambrose for a quick pasta after the party. Guess who walks in with her husband? Oh, no.

Tori. And I was able to keep it moving and play it cool. So I just wanted to kind of tell that story. Wow, what a great way to reframe you chickening out was I was able to... Keep it moving. I saw the woman of my dreams, and I was going to ask for her phone number, but I decided to just keep it moving, stay super casual, and not do that thing. You know what I mean? Not do that. I was going to graduate high school, but I decided to just kind of keep it moving. It's all good. Yeah, you got to keep it moving. It's fine. I tried to go get the selfie with TB because she was talking to Max. I go over to Max. And I give him a little hug. And then as soon as that happens, as if I have a skunk in my back pocket, Tory Burch sort of turns tail and ski-daddles before I even have a chance to broker a selfie. 0.5 or any angle. She didn't like the smell of you. And that is, you smelled fine to me, but maybe she has a different nose. I had a Canadian scent on. I had my margin unreleased. Dude, the new margin, not to simp, but the new margin warm weather scent is one of the best things I've smelled in a long time. There's a candle now. I haven't had access to that one yet. I'm not a shareholder, but I'm sure soon enough. Drew's ears are tingling as we speak. Drew's ears are tingling. I love when you say shareholder. That just really gets me going. Drew, as an honorary but not literary, literally shareholder, You have my address. It's a little something called Sweat Equity, Chris. What you put in is what you get out, which is nothing. What did you guys do for dinner last night? Did you just grab something quick? We walked over to Eataly. We just had a chill little Eataly din-din. Great Soho eatery, Eataly. It really is. It's so great. The service is terrible, and they always seem like they're not going to give you a table when you can see 40 tables available.

But other than that, it's great. The food is good. Yeah, it's solid because, you know, New York, it's just always a crapshoot where you're like, oh, hey, we will just pop into Lure for a steak-free. And they're like, cool, we have tables available at 3 a.m. if you want to come back in seven hours. And then sometimes you've got two at the bar for Teresa. You never know what you're going to get. But at Eataly, It's the same, you know, they're never going to be slammed, and the food is always going to be serviceable enough. And then when you're done, I get to go shopping for my local provisions, you know, yogurts that cost $17 and milk that came from Hudson Valley and things like that. Maybe a nice cookie. Cookie! But also really quick, and then this episode comes out today, which is Friday. And Carolyn has a party at Bookmark here in New York, Bookmark, the Mark Jacobs bookstore. From 6 to 8, her and a friend of hers made a book of photography that she styled. And self-produced the book. It's really cool and really clean. So if you're a friend and listening to this, come to Bookmark today, Friday, 6 to 8 p.m. I'll be there. And then we'll see you at the show afterwards. I'll be there. Chris will be there too. We'll have film, photography going on, and maybe alcohol. I'll be there too. Come do a tequila shot with me. Today we do have a special guest today. His album is out right now as you're listening. Father John Misty, Josh Tillman. finally tapped in on how long gone and um it it felt like a long time coming honestly um and yeah i think he has a future in podcasting if that's something he desires yeah i mean he's a little bit more media trained you know he's been doing i'm sure he's done fallon and kimmel and all these real shows and he's done snl and all that stuff so he's he's kind of like a third mike he's a ghost limb on this podcast he just

He slid right in and made himself comfortable, didn't he? But yeah, I mean, one of the greats, he really, you said it earlier in the week, but he kind of checks all of our boxes for the ideal, how long gone guests. He creates music, he gets paid a lot of money, and he pays attention to what's going on in Twitter and pop culture, and he's not afraid to share his thoughts on them, good or bad. Everything you could ask for. I was talking to him yesterday, actually, because we've been talking about Benson Boone, who's this artist that neither of us knew about. And he goes, he's like, did you know Benson Boone flips? And I was like, are you telling me that Benson Boone is bisexual? And then he waited like five minutes and sent me two videos of Benson Boone doing flips on stage. Backflips. See, I wasn't. I wasn't. I don't know why. The thought of a real flip never crossed my mind for some reason. So I don't know. Well, luckily, whoever this person is that you've never heard of who does flips is number three on the billing for Coachella this year. So this person who flips is above the Marias, Lisa from Blackpink, the Prodigy, Twigs. dj must the list goes on glorilla but i'm glad benson is flipping i mean look if that's what it takes to get that billing yeah the coachella billing drop we're not going to have a lot of time to get into it okay yeah i mean i would we can offer a brief brief thoughts on the coachella lineup though i would say that you know i felt bad because the last episode we were really kind of given coachella and golden voice the spurs a little bit especially considering that they've booked me to dj their festival every year for a long time but i will say they did a good job creating a diverse lineup of cool people and i think this is a good you think this is good step okay interesting i think i think well i mean obviously there's bad parts about it well there has to be that's like that's like no one's fault you know and i was saying before that like they used to do one for you one for them kind of thing and it was fine as long as there was enough good stuff to balance out the bad stuff and i think there is good stuff here balancing out the bad stuff like

I don't, you know, Green Day, Travis Scott designs the desert, whatever that means. I guess that means you can buy merch, and then maybe he'll play at the end. Green Day playing, even though they're liberals. Green Day playing. headlining Coachella feels like Trump's America. Yeah, it does. It does. I don't know why. I don't know why I get that feeling. It feels like Green Day headlining Coachella brought to you by the Comfort Inn Suites or brought to you by Nest Tea or something like that. Gaga is a headliner that will work. Missy Elliott is a great sub-headliner. She puts on a great show. She's cool. She adds variety to it. Like you said, Benson Boone, who gives a fuck about that, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, the Prodigy Twigs, that's cool. Glorilla is cool. You know, we could get Tyla's fine ass up in there. Three Six Mafia is pretty cool. Tyla's got half a song. Tyla's got half a song. I don't give a fuck. Twigs got zero songs. I don't give a fuck. They bad. We got Tink in there. She bad. Who else we got? But then you have to balance it out with some bad stuff like Austin Mills. I don't know what Austin Mills is. That sounds like a neighborhood in Cobb County just north of Atlanta. I think he's one of those tatted up white boys who also has an Apple show. He had the Apple show. He was one of those guys who had an Apple show and you're kind of like, how does this keep happening? He might still have it. I think he does. He's become a master. God bless him. Zane Lowe's understudy, you know, if he was also a Cyrus brother. If Zane Lowe gets COVID, he can step in if he has to. Exactly. It's not an if, it's a when. Anita's playing again, you know, whatever, it's fine. But Claro, dope. Shoreline, dope. Okay, we got to go. Viagra Boy is dope. Jimmy at World, dope. Two Hollis, the dare. Okay, well, let's go give our friend of the show and guest, Father John Misty, a call.

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and that are just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, it... How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs.

handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do all our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Guys, what a year for film. Thanks for having me. It's been incredible. It's been incredible. I can't wait to break it all down. It's been a megalopolis of a year, Josh. Wouldn't you agree? Uh-uh. Did you see that movie? No, I saw four.

I saw like four films this year that I love. Did you see them at home or did you go to a local? You guys just want to jump right in. I saw Good Will Hunting, Brokeback Mountain, Pretty Woman, and Girl Interrupted. Yeah. Okay. Okay. On HBO signature. Were these all on planes or this was at your home? This was all in one sitting in Billings, Montana. Okay. So you kind of, you knocked it all out in one afternoon. Well, I watched half of Good Will Hunting and then I had a flight the next day and this guy sitting next to me is like, okay, so this lunatic beelines it to his seat. Uh, fast forwards to the, it's not your fault scene in goodwill hunting. Okay. Can I change my seat? Okay. That, that I've done that before where I've, I've picked up a movie from an airplane at home, but I don't know if I've ever done from at home to airplane. It's nice to have multimedia like that, but yeah, were you actually in buildings, Montana? I was, and it was actually the retarded gorillas scene. Okay. Thank you for your honesty. Have you seen any films that have come out in the last 10 years? No. No, I mean, I have no. I haven't seen. You're telling me that you didn't see the Pharrell Lego biopic? Oh, my God. I don't know. I can't tell if you're kidding. We don't know either. Was that just off the dome or is that real? That's the whole thing. Well, Pharrell's on our brains a little bit, but that movie really. shocked me the existence of it really spun me right round i have to say is it a biopic i believe so yes yeah it's a it's a biopic but it's woven into the lego verse as well as multiple cultural moments so i think there's literally a lego recreation of the george floyd incident in this film that's true that's true they're like pharrell since nothing has happened in your life

We're going to have to. Let's just mine the news. We're going to bring in George Floyd. 9-11. All the hits. We're going to pepper in some of the coolest events that have happened in a while. Yeah, I haven't seen it. I don't know how well it did at the box office. I haven't checked. I haven't checked. It's still printing money, brother. I mean, I'm confused. It's just like you're chasing two rabbits there. It's like, is it a Lego movie? It reminds me of that Vice magazine joke video where how do they pick their headlines and there's just a bunch of post-it notes on a wall that says, heroin the the congo midgets or whatever and the guy just throws dildos and whatever it sticks to that's what the headline is and it's like pharrell biopic legos all right cool let's run with it let's rock i mean the the the kind of pathetic thing about it is is it's like it's sort of manifestly obvious to me that that he funded this That's kind of the saddest part. So you're saying he's the executive producer, which is creative, of course, but you think he maybe raised the money internally for this project. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, this is the skateboard P family office was able to cobble together the funds. Nobody's been knocking on doors for 10 years trying to get the Pharrell. Or maybe they were like, well, yeah, you can have a movie if it's Legos. On one condition, it's got to be Legos. You get two choices. You want to be blue or do you want to be plastic bricks? Your choice. Because Pharrell's not filling the seats. I don't think he's filling those seats. I would agree. This reminded me, though, I watched the entire Yellowstone series only on Delta. I never watched it on land. I only watch it, and I would take a picture of the screen where I left off. Right. And then next flight, I would just go right there. This could be one of your zines or something, Chris. It sounds like a cute little project. It could be a cute little photo series. You can save the little ticket for your Delta flight. Season four, episode 12. I consider myself a mixed media artist, so I would scan the tickets in, then mix them, obviously, with my iPhone photos. Dude, like scrapbook style. Scrapbook style. That's what I would do. Yeah, that rocks.

Wait, are you – so you're in upstate New York, you said? Yeah, I'm in upstate New York. I'm at a – Covered in ticks. A hotel called the Henson. And the best part about upstate is the hotel is beautiful. Food is great. But the thing about upstate is that as soon as you leave whatever place that has been settled, it's only like – meth head HVAC guys, you know, bellied up to the bar. So it's a little, when you're in the enclave, it's beautiful. It's, it's charming. And then as soon as you leave, you're confronted with the reality of upstate New York. It's almost like it's being gentrified in real time. Almost like that. Almost like that. But it's white on white gentrification. Yeah. I'm kind of in a similar, I'm kind of in the, in the West coast equivalent. I'm in M night Shyamalan's Topanga Canyon. It's just been the 70s here. That's sort of a likely. They have no idea that Pacific Palisades is just right over there. I feel like this is a likely and also unlikely place for you to be. I thought you had abandoned this, or do you come back sometimes to feel something? Yeah, I just come back to work. Okay, so you've fully abandoned L.A., and you want it to light on fire, or do you like to visit? I like to visit. Topanga Canyon is a pretty serious dose. Are we talking about visiting from Topanga Canyon to L.A.? Where are you visiting in from? I live up Central Coast now. Got it. Topanga is like... Some of these pussies are moving to Ojai. You said we'll hit the Big Sur. That's right. We'll go further. Caramel by the sea. I've heard my music. I can't... I can't disparage the 70s thing too much, but when you've got a guy in fringe and flower print bell bottoms going like, hey, what's up? That's tough. And he works at Meta. What?

Have you heard of the birds, man? Hey, what's up? This is normal. I'm actually a front-end developer. It's good work. I guess if you live here and you just go to good times at Davey Wayne's. You can kind of maintain. Okay, now when you walk into the general store, what's the vibe there? Do they know you? Do they toss you a pack of Marlboro Reds? I mean, I went in there last night. You trade some of your skins for a pack of cigarettes? I went in there last night and got in line behind a guy with like a Jester hat on. He was like, and these vaccine companies, like they, there's no liability. Like Reagan made sure. that these companies, you know, I mean, they are, the federal government is marketing for these vaccines. And then like the second I walked up, it was just like, they, they shut it. They could see, they could see you shutting. They didn't want to do that in front of you. Yeah. Yeah. They shut it down. Another spineless gesture of the Canyon. We were joking. We were joking about this the other day though, about how certain things now are, you know, uh, red coated and blue coated. And LA has this weird mix of like, I've taken my yoga. so far that now i'm a republican and it's a very it feels very la you know i mean if you just keep owning each other long enough you're bound to you're bound, you know, there's bound to be some porousness there. There has been a lot of owning. There's no, I mean, have you ever, Chris, have you ever even been to Topanga Canyon? Unfortunately, yeah, a few times. I don't like to really go, and this goes against where I am right now, but I really don't like to go to places where there's no cell service or it's not strong. At least I kind of like to be able to make contact at any time. I've been to the store. I've been to, what's the restaurant there that everybody likes? In at the 7th Ray? Yeah, there's that one. There's the pizza spot. Shout out to Topanga Living Cafe. I walked up to 27 to get a...

a burrito this morning was great do you have do you have like a top three neil young albums you know funny funny you ask that i'm not a neil young guy i never i knew it i never got it and it's right up my street but it was i mean obviously there's the hits and they're they're great and i like i think he's cool except for when he tried to launch his own high fidelity streaming service but other than that brother come on that was like 40 years he's gotten impeccable he's got he's had an impeccable streak he's all he was also dating daryl hannah which was like legendary stick man stuff later in life the music just didn't i it never caught are you are you that big of a neil young guy you like way too much music downstream from neil young not to i know i know i agree i would say exclusively down as a southern man yourself chris it is a southern man but i'm kind of the same as you chris jason also not a neil young guy i'm i'm not a i'm i'm by no means chris and i are not haters we're not haters of neil young but we usually do not reach for Hey, man, kind of shit. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're right. I do like a downstream is a good way to put the music that I like, and it definitely comes from there. Do you like slacker rock? That's probably my preferred genre, depending on who you place into that category. See, I am the mirror image where I despise everything downstream from Neil Young. Okay. What do you consider yourself? What's downstream from Neil Young? Give me your top two despisers. I think somehow the slackers have co-opted. The slacker rockers have co-opted. You're saying, let's say, just to put a face on this, like a pavement. Pavement? Okay, okay. I heard Stephen Malcolm's song here. That was cute when he pretended not to remember my cool stage name. He was just trying to show that you guys are, you know, you guys are cool, man. We're friends. Textbook Malcolmus. I stood, a funny Malcolmus story. Shout out Stephen Malcolmus. I was standing next to him watching Iggy Pop in like 2016, and he was like, he's like, so you're kind of like the indie rock Norman Mailer, huh? I was like, okay, I've read enough Norman Mailer to know that this is, you know, not explicitly a compliment. Yeah, sure, sure.

He was having a little fun. I feel like you've stood next to a lot of funny people in festival situations. That's the best part about being a musician that plays festivals. I feel like the interactions are always or can be surprising. Yeah, best thing is maybe a little much, but Fred Armisen can kind of go on. Yeah, I just find the slack rock thing to be sort of disingenuous because, I mean, you have to say yes to like... a thousand things you can't slack your way no anywhere no you're right being you are saying yes to like a million different things i think i think the words i think the words to get anywhere i agree but i think the word slacker is is kind of so so the slacking itself the literal slacking seems to be your peeve here maybe we're like don't tell me you're a lazy guy when You're moving from rehearsal to the shoot to the this to the that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe just to clarify, it's not, I mean, it's certainly, they didn't, you know, nobody deputized themselves a slacker. That's true. But, you know, the guitar, I mean, the guitar solos are so ambitious. There's a lot of trying. I would say that guitar solos in general are at odds with the term slacker. I think there's nothing more I'm going for it than a solo. I guess Jay Maskis seems like he's doing a lot with his guitar solos, but he's a real... You look up slacker in the dictionary, there's a photo of him with a bowl of chips on his stomach watching Portlandia. Maybe it's just... That for me, it would be a lot of hard work. But if you're just that, you know, adept of a guitar player, it's like you may as well be slacking. So you're not you're saying that you're self identifying as a non shredder is what you're saying. We've spent. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, not even close. I couldn't shred lettuce.

Okay, I didn't know that about you. I didn't know that about you, but I guess that's why you have a band. That's what those guys are for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find guitar solos, I actually hate them. And it reminds me of music I really dislike, like Guns N' Roses. It's just peak corny to me, even though there are good ones. I know that. Historically, it's not my thing. I mean, musically, nothing is really a thin red line for me, if it's good. for the curse of singing curse that's just like the curse of singing or no no cursive is great no you're not familiar with this no with this this term curse of singing i mean you you it's the like uh down hair hall that kind of thing that's like give me an example one does now but give me a good example of a xerox of a xerox of a xerox of a xerox of a xerox of Billie Holiday or something. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Have you seen the Camilla Cabello I'll Be Home for Christmas? I've heard of it. I've seen it. She goes, I'll be home for Christmas. Where you just randomize vowels. I'll be home for Christmas. Okay, okay, the vowels can take shape in many new ways. If the R's turn into W's, so be it. But yeah, it is a thing. I didn't know that it was called Curse of Singing. I thought you said The Curse of Singing. And I was like, oh, he's getting existential in this bitch. But no, it's literally a style of singing that I truly also despise. And it's, I'm trying to think that guy, there's like that, there's some like R&B pop guy, not Waleed, but something, oh, Khaled. Not DJ Khaled, but Khalid. He does that shit a lot, too, where it's just like, this bottle of water, instead of just saying a bottle of water. And it's not anybody's fault. The enunciation, you just get born into this place, and that's how you listen to the radio, and that's how people sing. I guess that's how we pronounce words on planet Earth. But for a crusty old guy like me...

you know, who remembers when vowels were vowels. Did you ever put on an, did you ever put on an English accent? That was a very common thing as well. No. And I mean, I shouldn't front because, you know, in my twenties I, I was, I don't know what the hell I was doing. I was, you know, I mean, I was putting on like a real affect on my voice because I wanted to sound, you know, like a crusty. old wizard sure um sure okay yeah i mean i was touring with guy at 22 i was touring with guys who smoked like like richard buckner and damian gerato these were like these were my heroes and they were like smoking multiple packs of reds every day and and and had like had sex before and you know all kinds of stuff real grown man bi change their own oil in their car and so i was you know i definitely was attempting to it I was trying pretty hard to sound grizzled like someone else. Yeah, grizzled. Learned. I think that's part of being young. You've got to figure it out. I think everybody should be given some license from a certain age. Definitely. I just don't have to listen to it. That's right. Because when we hung out in Grand Rapids, I feel like you really keep up with new music in a way that would surprise people. Well, what did we talk about? I mean, you guys were telling me about Benson Boone. We were telling you. You were just very up on what we were talking about in a way that I didn't expect you to be. For a guy in Big Sur, you know a lot about what's going on on Pitchfork. Yeah, for a guy off the grid. For the guy with an orchard, I didn't expect you to... I can't really help that I only have an aptitude for remembering stupid things. I think we all suffer from a similar problem. I guess it's just grist for them. If you're like a... a chronic complainer like me you need grist for the mill yeah you don't have to tell us sweetheart that is our whole that's our whole thing our mill is over this machine cannot shut down yeah yeah i mean i but but are you like looking at websites or do you just listen to new music when it comes out yeah i'm looking at websites okay you're looking at websites not reddit but what what kind of websites no i'm really not i i sort of like disagree with the premise of this question because

I don't, I don't totally remember. I mean, I've, yeah, we were, we were on some, we were doing a deep dive for, for, for cursive singing fellas, like in the days leading up to, to us hanging out. Yeah. That may have been. Okay. It was on the brain. On the brain. Yeah. We were, we were reconfiguring some of my songs for like, for, for the cursive affect. Pour me another drink and punch me into feet. You can call me Nancy. It does work. I mean, it does work. Dude, I would have been headlining Casey Musgrave's tour. You're done with that, right? Yes. Well, actually, that reminds me of a question that I wrote down. Okay. Do you think you would be bigger if your lyrics weren't so weird? This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Hi, Talk House Network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston,

South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Yeah, I mean, I'm sort of like a little too weird for the normals and a little too normal for the weirds, I'd say. That's kind of my sweet spot. I mean, you know, we definitely, my manager's been hearing that as long as we've been working to get from radio people that like, love the melodies. This guy's got a real gift. God, what the hell is he talking about? I've never been to Gelson's. Can he give us something we can work with? There is some specificity to things that could be confusing to the layman. But also, that's how you get. I mean, I feel like that's the only way you are going to do you. And that's the way it should be. And I feel like you've amassed a large enough. devoted listeners across the world to live a nice, happy, healthy life. Yeah, I mean, what's sad is that they feel like normal lyrics to me. That's how fucked up you are in the head, huh? Yeah, that's how I meant it. I don't know, it just sounds normal to me. Maybe not sad, but my idea of a good lyric is like crimson and clover over and over. Like that's a good lyric. My lyrics aren't good. They're not, they may have like a certain grand eloquence to them, but they don't, they don't quite work as lyrics because they're constantly kind of like poking out of the tune and agitating. Yeah. You know, reminding you that they're different. I guess, you know, you know, like when I stopped singing like an, like a, like a wizard.

there was also like a lyrical component to that where I was like, I just want to drop all affect. Like I want to sound like Josh Tillman singing about things that Josh Tillman talks about and not put on a persona, so to speak. No more wizard shit. No more riddle answering. Yeah. I know more. Yeah. There's a lot of like, now look, you know, maybe that was a little legalistic. of an approach, but that was just sort of the, that just sort of became the modus operandi going forward. But I think, and I think I was sort of patient zero for like a certain form of lyricism that really didn't, I mean, at that point in 2012, like indie rock lyrics largely revolved around like a few themes that were like, you're a bad friend. I'm a good friend. You changed. I will never change. I've heard grizzly bear before. That's yeah. That was like you make, and then, and then every course was just sort of like, you make it so easy, like yada, yada. And that, that was sort of the, I feel like that was, uh, uh, the backdrop that I was, you know, doing my sort of like brutalist on lyric lyric writing. And, I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying that I that anybody heard me, but I mean, I did. I do know that I influence that I had an influence on like a few people that that did end up going on to influence way more. people and now i think it's time to reel it in a little bit okay so you're saying you heard the new sean mendez album you see where he got it from and you're ready to pull you're ready to pull it back a little bit i got it i got it anyway um who cares what what the freak uh have you guys been doing lately uh we did the gq men of the year red carpet we hosted that event so we got to talk to many um

Very cool. Cat Williams, Walton Goggins, The Rock. Nice. The list goes on. I went to that thing. I was getting invites to that pretty regularly. When did they stop inviting you? I mean, this is like Obama era. But I went with a meal the one time. And if I remember correctly, he got wrapped up in a pretty intense. conversation with fk twigs which if memory serves endured the entire night look as i was i was around in that era and i can definitely say that happened you were probably there um i could definitely say that that happened and so i just ended up you know i'm not friends with trevor noah or uh zach braff so i i just kind of i remember some real obama shit right into the That's really some Obama shit. Nothing is more Obama than Zach. You don't know anyone from the cast of New Girl at all. I just stared into the middle distance, like, smoking cigarettes and trying desperately to locate something interesting about all these men of the year. I understand. I understand. Sounds like what I did last week. We found a lot of them. But, I mean, I talk to Emile all the time about how he's got to release the Twigs tapes because it's the best music she's ever made. That's right. Yeah, that stuff is really good. By far the best music she's ever made because now she's a modern dancer. and the music is not the focus, but when she was making music, it was very good. Yeah. You're too straight to appreciate it, Chris. This is what Jason always says. When I don't like something, it's I don't get it. You know what I mean? That's a very fair argument. It's not a fair argument. There's a lot of people who love techno music, and you just don't get it. No, but techno music I respect. I just don't want to listen to it. That's very different. Some stuff is objectively bad. Right. That's a different argument. Electronic music is not for me, but I respect the culture and the skill that is required because I think it's a really difficult thing to achieve at a high level, especially. Thank you. I'm trying to think if there's any... God, R.I.P. Quincy Jones. Right? Just revisiting those interview excerpts from... I mean, that's the best part. That's almost better than the music for me. Once you hit...

Once you hit 85, I hope I make it that long. Nothing matters. So I can just let it fucking rip. I think you should start ripping. I think you kind of already rip, but they're not going to appreciate it until you pass away is the problem. Just outing every top billing indie folk dude that was on Raya. Yeah, all the... All the stereo gum Raya crossover that you could spill is just too great. Yeah, Emil's listening right now, and he's sweating like a whore in church. He's like, maybe we don't need to talk about that kind of stuff. No, no, no. I've never worked with this guy. What is this? The website called Raya? I'm not familiar with it. Saw Emil this weekend, actually. I love when people mispronounce Raya as Raya to act like they've never heard of it before. That is something I've seen several times. Yeah, you guys probably talked about all that. god damn what quincy just like talking about how the beatles couldn't play and stuff yeah it's the coolest thing of all time beautiful yeah we were talking about how like he is one of the last living or was one of the last living people who would you know have the chutzpah to do shit like that yeah and nobody's gonna check him on it like they're he he was high enough on the totem pole to say whatever he want and nobody's going to challenge him, and he would say it, and everyone is way too scared to do anything like that. He was like the driver of the 20th century. Have you built with him? You met him, right? No. Oh, you didn't? Interesting. I assumed you would have crossed paths at some point. What about Rick Rubin? You ever tangled with him at Shangri-La? No. I mean, I do. I do want to make a record with him someday, so I want to be careful what I say. He listens. I want to make a record where neither of us show up and just see what happens. Just see where it takes us. Where those Malibu winds blow. Okay. Phineas is going to do most of the work is what it sounds like, but your stink will be all over it. He gets a bad rap because

He is one of the few people with the gravitas in the music industry, with the mystique, to run interference for these huge artists where you can just go to the label and be like, leave a bag of money, don't talk to us, we'll give you the record in three years. So you're saying that's what people are hiring him for, partly, is that he can get anyone to leave you alone? I think so, yeah. That's honestly pretty powerful. There's a lot of pressure on some of those legacy by the time people go to work with him. There's a lot of noise, and I think he's good at canceling all that out. I've never worked with a producer who is like, this song isn't good enough. Some of that is just testament to the quality of my songwriting. Swag. For listeners at home, he just dabbed right now. But I do sort of fantasize a little about having somebody just come in. And be like, nah. Because we're mixing. That's why I'm down here is mixing all the stuff left over from when we're making the record. Are we getting a deluxe version? Is that what? No, it's going to be another release. Oh, okay. And you're making these final. final decisions on stuff that you've spent like untold tens of thousands of dollars of flugelhorns on. And while simultaneously grinding down your ability to maintain perspective to a nub using tactics. basically like how they get dictators to come out of their compounds you know like repetitive music and concussive volumes and sleep deprivation and all that they play sepultura for 11 days straight yeah and you you do you know people people clown on him for like not being around but you gotta have somebody coming who's not you know that in this you know in the shit

coming in every once in a while and just going like, you guys have completely lost the plot here. Well, this gives me hope in my production career as a person who can't play an instrument. I could suss it out and say this is good or this is bad. Our argument on how long gone about Rick Rubin is that he has ruined the mystique a little bit by writing this book and being on social media, like hanging out with Malcolm Gladwell, whereas he could have just left it alone. He shouldn't have. It does sort of blow my mind that he would sell the farm to become a podcaster. But I think he's my brother. Watch your mouth. Watch your mouth. I didn't have a farm. Jason didn't have a farm either. We had no choice. We had no choice. I figured a farm. But, you know, he is like – I do think he gets interesting things out of – and, you know, I mean, I don't want to talk out of school too much. But I have a story. There's a story. A friend of mine went to have a meeting with him at Shangri-La. about his publishing, and he gets there, sits down in those lawn chairs. What did Diplo say? He's waiting, and then, like, over the hill comes, like, an assistant engineer with a wheelbarrow rolling it towards him. And in the wheelbarrow is a laptop that is open to Zoom, where Rick Rubin is. Zooming in from Hawaii. So hold on. So you go to Shangri-La to meet Rick Rubin. His assistant brings a MacBook Pro in a wheelbarrow on Zoom, and you meet him there. I'm sorry, everybody. I'm sorry. I love you. That's one of the coolest stories I've ever heard. I'm done. I don't think that story is derogatory to Rick Rubin at all. I feel like that is cooler. It's like when you're in school and they wheel in the TV on the cart because you're going to watch a movie today, sick day, whatever. Yeah. A wheelbarrow of all things. Yeah, it was an invitation.

shangri-la like it's cool it's it's cool it's cool going out yeah i would love to visit i would love to do things a little differently here okay yeah we do things freaking laptop on a wheelbarrow speaking of neil young and and shangri-la when i was there working on the lady gaga album neil was in that little trailer that that where they mixed yeezus And that's why Neil wanted to stay there. So the next day, so, and I was with a meal. So I was just kind of like creeping around the whole day, like trying to, you know, make myself run into Neil Young on the ground. A meet cute. Yeah. A run in trying to engineer a best friendship with Neil Young. And so I was like, I know what I'm, I know what I'm going to do. I got to drive the hearse here tomorrow. Cause I had a 1968 Cadillac superior hearse. And. Driving this thing, Neil Bate, driving that fucking thing from Hollywood to Malibu was like such a pain in the ass. And I got there like I like finally get the thing up that little driveway like in there and no Neil. The hearse made it, but Neil wasn't there that day. No. Okay. No. Not easy to parallel park that thing. Oh, my God. Yeah. People thought you were Rob Zombie going down the one. Yeah. No Neil at all. I do get Rob Zombie a lot. Yeah. Really? You're Dragulish. But doesn't Rob Zombie have dreads, or does he just have long hair? I must just look so much like him in the face. He's got a beard. He's more gray. He's more of a top hat vibe. How often do you wear a leather jacket, Josh? You know what I mean? Oh, brother. I just got a... Gabrielle Hearst just sent me a black... Leather suit. Leather suit. So Gabriella Hurst makes your stage clothes, which was like a nice brown suit and a few other ones. But you're saying she made you a black leather suit? Yeah, it's like a double-breasted jacket with leather pants. Okay, that is very interesting. Now, my question to you is, what's the movement like? Because you like to gesticulate and get down on your knees. Do you think the leather can withstand your...

Gyrating? Gabby knows what she's doing. I want you to get those thoughts out of your fucking head right now. Wish we could. Yeah, no, it's good. I wouldn't say it's breathable, but it definitely moves. Is it lined? Tailored to my contours. Is it lined? Yes. Okay. That makes it much more comfortable. It's Lululemon on the inside. But I've certainly never worn a motorcycle jacket. Honestly, I'm proud of you because I would have assumed at some point you had a shot perfecto in the rotation. Those got awfully cutesy, it seemed like. And then I really hated when they started. cutting things like those jackets but they were made out of like oh yeah other other materials yeah i never i always knew that i could not pull that off and i've as many mistakes i've made over the years that is not one of them which is a proud moment for me yeah um the shaved head with the motorcycle yeah that's that's like a whole That's a whole other thing. I like looking tough, but I don't want to look like a biker tough. That's a different flavor. Nothing to worry about there, Chris. Nothing to worry about. You'll just look like a crypto guy if you wear a leather biker jacket, bro. That's honestly true. No shade. Jonathan Wilson wears a black motorcycle jacket. He looks fucking incredible in that thing. It's weird. It's sort of like playing against type a little bit. He'll have a soft suede shoe. It's not... Yeah, it's sort of playing against type. The contrast. It's advanced. With him is, and he just sort of like radiates like traditional masculinity. Don't see too much of that nowadays. You really don't. That's a candle that has had the flame put out. He's fixing stuff. He's not like playing auxiliary floor tom in an indie folk band. Why did you have a hearse? He's getting an Indian running. Just for vibes? Just to impress the new girl. It was on the side of the road. It was like $5,000. We'd been dating for like three weeks. And she was like, oh, I love that car. And I was like, got it.

Okay, so you bought a hearse for five bands. Do you love Mina? Fast forward like five years, we're separated. It's getting taken to the police auction every three weeks because my neighbors are freaked out by it. So I just let it return to the earth. I can't imagine, but I can't really imagine you driving a new car, but I guess you have to. Oh, yeah, these days, for sure. Old cars are a fool's errand. They look cool, but that's about it. Yeah, I mean, my truck has never needed, you know, it's like an 86, and I've never taken it to the shop. Really? Yeah. That's pretty impressive. 86 what, Josh? Sorry for interrupting. Oh, it's a GMC High Sierra 250. But Em and I were driving these goddamn Jaguars around for... Like the Joan Diddy? Like the... Yeah. Like the Rod Stewart Jaguars? Like the XJ12? These were like 90s, yeah, XJ... I don't even remember. You guys had matching or dueling? They were pretty matching. Matching or dueling? I would say you're not beating the shagadelic rumors right now, I will say. Zipping around the canyon in your mansion. Yeah, you're really not. You're really not. Yeah, they were. Yeah, I just feel like I didn't know anything about cars, and I was like, this poor sucker is selling this thing for $3,000. You're like, I went again. $40,000 later. I brought up shagadelic because I feel like the new album has some shagadelic tendencies, and I don't mean that in an insulting way. What say you? No, I mean, I just want to clarify, just make sure that the definition of shagadelic isn't broader than I think. Well, I mean, typically it's in the Austin Powers universe, but I think it's a literal actual Webster. Yeah, like a Webster's dictionary word, I'm assuming, combining. sex, and psychedelics. So those are two very cool things, you know? Yeah. Maybe. It was more like a Lego movie, kind of. What I was going for. Well, I mean, there's, I was listening, there's, you know, there's some drum breaks that are funky. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Time makes full of us all, for sure. Yeah. I'm going to chop that up. Yeah, you should. That is such, I mean, God, that little drum.

That little drum break there is like noodles with olive oil and garlic and truffle. You didn't play the drums. No, hell no. Okay, so do you not play the drums anymore? He does play the drums. No, I mean on the record. I mean, no, not this time around. I wanted to get the band in there and see what happened. And Dan is, you know, for my money, I would put him up against Warnaker or Matt Chamberlain or any of those guys, and it's just sort of criminal not to use him in the studio. Sure, if he's at your disposal, why not use him? The guy can smack. You guys think you're going to have to do any Grammys red carpet in your future? I would love to. I mean, it's kind of our... It's definitely a better zone for us than the Emmys, which we did. So it feels like... Oh, you did the Emmys. I would personally rather do the Met Gala than the Grammys. Yeah. Because I think I could say more funny things about the way people are dressed than jelly rolls. second album you know what i mean i got nothing the thing the problem is jason jelly roll is going to be at both events and that's where you fucked up that's the thing jelly roll jelly roll if jelly roll gets invited to the met gala i am tearing up my invitation well you don't have an invitation either but those invitations are they're getting every year things like that the the range gets wider and not this isn't talking about jelly rolls hips I just mean the range gets wider and wider. So you're saying he's still too fat for the Met Gala, but in the next couple of years... Well, he's too fat until it's made to measure, and then no one's too fat. I was texting Emile about Jelly Roll because he wanted me to do some writing with him for Jelly Roll. Do the Jelly Roll sessions. And I was like, I'm obsessed with this idea of somebody interpolating Mansion on the Hill by Bruce Springsteen.

But, you know, changing the lyrics to something, you know, like... I used to sell fentanyl in Nashville. Yeah. I was like, this is the hit. Anyway. I don't know if... I don't know... We talk about Jelly Roll a lot because we've never... heard his music he's he's a he's a figure that is inescapable in culture but i've never heard one bar of music right like you don't encounter it in life unless you choose to on a streaming service like pharrell in the last 10 years yeah he's been making music no one's ever heard it yeah when are the great the grammys did those just get an did did all those nominations and stuff just get announced Is this how you found out you're snubbed again, Josh? Oh, my God. You got nominated for Grammy before, right? I've been nominated for, yeah, in 2017, I got nominated for Best Limited Box Set or Special Packaging or something. I'll take it. Look, I'll take it. Which I won. Oh, so you've got the Grammy on the toilet. In a tie with another, like for the first time in Grammy history, like a tie. Who did you tie with? I don't remember the guy's name. Nobody does. Come on. I didn't know that was a possibility. I didn't know the Grammys were like soccer. I know. It kind of makes you think like, what if there's a tie for album of the year? That would be. incredible yeah they got they got announced it was pretty it's exactly what you think it's going to be you know there's i don't think there are any surprises well beyonce is nominated right even though that album is a flop it is considered yeah it's it is dude don't you think it's i mean it's incredible that she put the grammys into this position where like i don't know what's worse them snubbing the album or giving her album of the year for this

White coated. And I know that I know that the thesis of the album is addressing like exactly the kind of thing I just said, but in the minds of the detractors of the Grammys like that. Like, is it worse to snub her or give her a Grammy for this album specifically? Well, this happens a lot where people win an award for the wrong piece of work. You know, this is historically what happens with like actors, like they'll win an Oscar and it's like, yeah, but he should have won it six years ago. So this feels like you're giving it to him as a gesture almost. Yeah. But just as like from her, just as like a, a like 12 dimensional chess. Checkmate. Yeah, I was going to say it's a checkmate right here. That's fucking incredible. Either way, I'm going to get the award. I don't care how I get it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can't. But I'm going to play the Academy like a fiddle to borrow a country pump. Did you win for Gaga stuff or no? No, not that I recall. Yeah, I also got nominated for Best Alternative for pure comedy. That's real. For pure comedy. Yeah, that was real. Did you go to the show? No, I was in Australia. But Emma went and she loved the earlier ceremony. She said it was actually really cool. Just people who don't typically get acknowledged. Like the sound engineering guys that get it? Engineers and all that kind of stuff. But I remember her. She's like, the national one. And I still – and she has, like, no idea who the national are or whatever. That's what she tells you. Yeah. You're like Zach Bryan. You don't let your wife bring up the national at home. Oh, no. Don't be singing no national in my house, woman. Oh, my God. You'll get the switch. Blood Buzz Ohio, I'll change the locks. I only said that because it was funny kind of in the context of the text. It still is funny. Don't worry. I remember the album title because then I spent the whole rest of the tour going, sleep well, beast. Look, that's a good album. It's not their best. Sleep well, beast.

It's not their best. Do you think that's a... Sleep well. Do you think that title's a little dramatic? It just lent itself to the just endless repetition. Like just going up behind people all like in the van all tour along just going sleep well beast. I'd like to see you doing that in a Melbourne coffee shop. Thanks I think. Sleep well based. No, that is a great record. Best alternative record? Who's to say? Sure, sure. Well, just speaking of good alternative records, Beck's Sea Change, I was reminiscing a little bit on a few songs on your new record that comes out this week. I feel like you and Beck are either besties or enemies, nothing in between. What do you think? Yeah, no, I love Beck. Okay. Do I like Beck? No. He's a bit of a tough putt, yeah. No, not a single weird thing there, which is like what you say when there is something weird there, but you just take me at face value. Who is Mashama? Is that a real thing, person? God? Yeah, it's kind of a metaphorical. place in hinduism where the universe goes to die after its long cycle of birth and death and um yeah the i mean the record is is like largely about the kind of the receding of of the self and i just liked the contrast between you know i mean this massive uh word and yeah and you get it It is a massive word, and it was feeling like – I didn't know that there existed a place where universes go to die after they're done universing. That kind of blew my mind. But also in that song, do you – I made a Gelson's reference earlier. Do you reference Gelson's in that song? Yeah. Thank God. There's something about like being in there at midnight and seeing – We're talking about the one Beachwood Canyon one on Franklin? Yes, yes. And just seeing –

You know, celebrities on, you know, in different places on the bell curve of fame with the glasses and the and, you know, the Yankees have pulled down and and like, you know, shop, you know, trying to be in there when they're not going to get get hassled or whatever. Just something about that image. I mean, a lot of a lot of songs that end up getting finished with me are because there's some some line that. that makes me laugh where I think, well, that's a really stupid first line for a song. Like that song needs to, that song should exist. Like there's a few on this record, like, like in the Panopticon, um, that I was just kind of singing, you know, just kind of blurted out in the car. And then I kind of, I don't know. I get some sort of momentum from, from something like that. And, and yeah, that his body's the Gelson's. And just knowing that it would be just sort of... I do like lyrics that just have a little bit of stink on them. Where you're just like, what? Why? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. And that shows. And I like that Gelson's reference was on a nine-minute long epic opening track based around where gods and universes go to die. Right. And you're talking about... Where I go hit the salad bar sometimes. Well, but it's more, yeah, I was thinking like, or like a woman who's like looking more for something like a sad, broke down old guy looking for comfort in the arms of someone like that instead of these, you know, like the quarters have arrived in male polish and tailored slacks, reformed past all recognition, resplendent and donor class panache. Like, you know, those are like the guys that she's surrounded by and she's going to this, you know, wants to go to a safe place. And I thought about, you know, I don't know, just that imagery of this being like a safe place for these kind of sad, epic figures to, you know. I've tried to act like the metaphorical Gelson's to get some pussy multiple times in my life, and it does work well.

He didn't just carry the tote bag, Josh. He really lived it. It was different. The Gelson's, though, is almost... I feel like it's mythic in the same way Erewhon is to a certain kind of Angeleno. And it's interesting to see it get the spotlight it might deserve. Yeah, I mean, I figured it would just kind of be... just mouth sounds to most people, you know, as, as it went by, like, and then there would be a few people who would, it would make their ears perk up. That happened to me. I don't have, I'm not, I don't have this wide, uh, I'm not, I don't have a bunch of great lyrics spread out in front of me from which I can like pick and choose. You know, I'm just like a desperate freak in the dark. We know like scrounging around. you know just one word to the next i'll take anything anything okay well gelson's i mentioned they have a nice wine bar there but you've also name checked the thirsty crow the drawing room every sort of east side watering hole thirsty crow is that was too far for me personally that was a little too far that wasn't classic enough you know what i mean it was too current crow the drawing room what's going on i think since i was a recent I think since I, you know, it's like how you need like, you need a Canadian really to, um, to sing about the American experience, like sort of in the same way. Like I really have no, I have, I have no place like being in Los Angeles. And, and since I'm such a kind of, I mean, I know people because of the music, you know, associate me, but I'm like, I'm like a Christian from Maryland, you know? I really don't belong in Los Angeles. So there's like a novelty to like everything. So everything is up for grabs. There's not, you know, like, you know what I mean? Yeah, but you don't hang out at hipster dive bars anymore, do you? No, it's been a minute. Sounds fun. Grass is always greener. Yeah. So you're in Big Sur now, but I feel like you have like a connection with the desert.

You a desert head? Do you ever go out there for a little solo expedition? You got a little crib in J-Tree? Have you found God at Pappy and Harriet's? I have. Yeah, I just played Pappy and Harriet's. I did think that I found God one night in the desert. It was like one of the first times I went out there. I played a show and was staying at a friend's. I got back to her place and it was pitch black. And I had a gong in the back of my van. And we were all in mushrooms and stuff. And I grabbed the gong out of the back of the van. I just started wailing on this thing. And then went to bed and woke up the next morning and realized that there was another house right next to their house. wailing on this gong like by their bedroom window it probably i mean it probably happens yeah i was gonna say if it's gonna happen anywhere it's gonna happen there that's for sure yeah yeah they could they could tell by the sound of the gong what model number it was so that's the oh that's a zildjian that's 3800 series zildjian that's hand that's hand done that's i've actually had my eye on that model the factory we should go over there and talk to him next time see if i can borrow it do you guys want to talk sinks Oh. Yeah. How did you buy your house? Real love, baby. Don't leave me with it. Because I know Sub Pop ain't buying it, so you had to get it somewhere. Yeah. I mean, I did. I bought a house with that money. And also... turn down like the GDP of South Dakota. For what? Why would you turn? For real love, real love baby money. For what brand? Well, there was, um, there, you know, like, you know, A&W. Apparently they are, apparently they're McDonald's in Canada. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm familiar. They're, they're everywhere. And they wanted to use, they wanted real love baby to be like the ba-da-ba-ba-ba for A&W. And they send me this like.

you know, they send me this whole pitch with like, you know, those shots of, of the food dress burger, like, you know, coming towards your face, the sauce, you know, the sauce is dripping. The people are pan-ethnic. It was. And it was so Kafkaesque. It was so horrifying. Like, I couldn't. It would have been better if they didn't show you the deck. If they're like, hey, we want to. Right. We sell hot dogs and Pepsi. Do you want this money or not? And that's it. Once they show you the commercial, then you're like, dear God, I can't do this. Yeah. No. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So you said no to A&W, which I, of course, as a capitalist, that's a mistake because it's only in Canada. So who cares? I know. You know, that's how you should have thought about it. I used to be a manager. I thought you were talking about the Lon and Del Rey song really quick. Sorry. I had to remember that there was a mall restaurant chain. So what did you take the money for then that allowed you to put a roof over your family's head? You know, I actually haven't taken, I mean, a lot of that is just from royalties. Oh, okay. So like normal. The catalog actually performs. It's really consistent. It does. That's cool because the only Father John Missy song I listen to is the demo version of the Lady Gaga song that's you on YouTube. So I know you're not getting much money from that, but that's what I stream. That was, you know, I'm a little... No, I don't know. You want the song. You maybe should have kept that one for yourself. I maybe should. Well, yeah, I may. Maybe. Yes, we'll put it that way. I maybe should have kept. I think every songwriter has that about something. Yeah, that's a comment. But I got to say my masterpiece, my broke mindset masterpiece is Mark Ronson called me about three years ago and he says. They're doing a live action Barbie movie. They're doing a live action Barbie movie. Here's the script. We want a song for Ken. I guess like I assume that since he was calling me about it, that the Ken song was going to be some like peripheral. Sure.

I mean, who would have known that Ken was going to be the breakout star of the Barbie movie? No one could predict that. Hollywood insiders couldn't see that. Believe men. Yeah, like read some of the script. Script's not great. I mean, let's just say like the song that they ended up with, I mean, I heard it for the first time when I watched his Oscars performance. I was like, wait, I love this. But I know that if I had been involved, not only would the song have flopped, but I probably would have ruined the whole movie somehow. So Oppenheimer would have won if you had your touch on it. Exactly. But being able to say that you turned down the opportunity to work on the biggest song. I mean, is that not like the biggest song of all? Of all time. You fucked up. I mean, for sure. I don't think, I mean, no one can argue that. You know how many times I have said when I'm looking at a, like a retaining wall or something, just going like shit. Retaining wall. And Mark, please forgive me for talking about this publicly, but he didn't say, do you want to come in with me and Andrew and just sort of contribute some couplets to this thing we're working on? It was more like, do you want to do the whole lift? Yeah. Having heard that song and knowing you and your style, I would do the same thing if I was in Ronson's shoes. let him own this i'm picturing you doing it in like a nick nick cave kind of crooner style yeah that was all that was all i mean they ended up doing this sick meatloaf thing um yeah yeah and then just to salt the wound mark sent me they did some version of it there was like a scott walker version of it of all the people which was like incredible he wanted he wanted to let you know that you fucked up

In a nice, subtle Mark way. He's let me know a couple times. He's like, oh, do you remember I asked you about that? Do you remember a little movie called Barbie? It's about a year ago. You're like, I think about it every day of my life. Oh, my God. Maybe when you go on tour this year for the new record, you can maybe kind of do your own version of Barbie, and then the fans get kind of like, oh, no, you know, like. Like the Chippendales sketch on SNL where Farley keeps dancing after the contest is over. No, John, don't do it. Yeah. We're good. We're good. Oh, shit. All right, Josh. We really appreciate it. It's a pleasure. The new album is out Friday or today. I don't know when we're going to put this out. Friday. Friday on Sub Pop. Screamland is my favorite song. I would skip ahead to that one and then go to the beginning if that's what you want to do. If he was in charge of the sequencing, it would have gone down a little differently. I don't sequence. You're the musician or whatever. Josh, thank you. It was a pleasure. We'll come see the show on tour and hopefully we see you soon. Alright, fellas. Respect. Later. Bye. Stitch Fix. Stop shopping. Get styled. Not today, sweatpants. Somebody's wearing jeans that fit. Wow! No photos, please. I'm just a regular dad who happens to have a stylist. I really look my best when someone else makes the decisions. Hey, we can all see you two-way mirrors. Just share your size, style, and budget, and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. Stitch Fix. Get started today at stitchfix.com. I want to hug you. I'm gonna hug you. I'm coming in for a hug.