819. - Stephanie Danler

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone your favorite bitches are back? Chris Black coming to you from Money Making Manhattan. Them jeans, I assume, is resting comfortably at his stand-up desk in Glendale with his tank top on. How accurate am I? Red means down, mama. Red means down. Everything is spot-on correct except for the resting comfortably. The whole point of the standing desk is sort of to... retard that process oh i was saying i i didn't mean i didn't mean physically i meant mentally and spiritually i'm settling into a good cuppa i got a good cup of true nutrition in my cup i am an affiliate member as they chose not to use uh how long gone as a advertisement platform anymore so you know if you want to get your true nutrition on tj's blend is available just okay that's good hit me in the dm Yeah, of course, of course. You don't get 10% off. I do. But, you know, it's just all love. You know what I'm saying? I get a 10% kickback. You get nothing. But it's a deal for me. So I just got back from Midtown. I went to lunch at Michael's. And I just got back. I had time to stop, hop off the train, stop, went to Cafe Angraal. And now I'm back in my computer. And right before we start recording today's episode of How Long Gone.

we find out that friend of the show, Justin Bieber, is dropping his new album entitled Swag at Midnight. I mean, he's been in the lab. I've seen him posting a lot of photos with a three-footer in a studio that costs as much as a super yacht, you know, just one of those Bon Iver-ass-looking rooms. And, you know, he's just got his, like, 19-year-old friend on Fruity Loops with the headphone jack plugged into it. To listen to on the bigs. Yeah, on the bigs. He hasn't put out a record since 2011. And unfortunately, it's feeling like he's going to be in his R&B hip-hop bag because it's featuring Gunna, Sexy Red, and of course, how could he leave off Cash Cobain? You know Cash is on there. I could easily leave off Cash Cobain. But, I mean, I love that him and Sexy have become kindred spirits. I do too. I think it's cool. Who would have thunk? A young, sexy red living, you know, I don't know where she's from, but not coming from much, watching Bieber on TV, biggest star in the world, and then, you know, snap your fingers 20 years later. You and him are twin sitting on a leather couch in a studio somewhere in Burbank. Do you think... Smoking a lot of weed and taking selfies. Do you think this relationship has... nefarious ending like do you think bieber's trying to beat and get made a man by sexy or do you think it's strictly you're an inspiring woman i think both sexy red and justin are able to complete the process without getting caught into their feelings they can keep it purely g with it it can be just a transactional okay you think that you think they can keep it g i don't know if i agree i think that hayley bieber looks at a photo of him and sexy red sharing a love seat because sexy can do things that hayley can't yeah of course hayley ray of course no no no one no one no hey when he accidentally called her hayley red that was a problem for their marriage so i'm glad that i got i'm glad i got through that i think you're right but i also think it's it's the flavors are so different and there's two animals inside of justin

You know, there's the animal who wants to wear his pants, you know, around his ankles, release some slides, and hit the three-footer. And then there's also the, like, I want to be a dad and live in Malibu. And I think those two beasts are fighting inside of him as we speak. They're regular Justin and stud Justin. Justin is kind of giving stud, actually, now that you say that. Justin is a stud. And that's why Sexy likes it, because I think Sexy is a stud lover herself. Who amongst us? Show me a good friend of mine, and there's not a stud hater in the mix. We all love a good stud. America runs on those studs. But yeah, Justin, when you say 2011, that is almost 15 years ago. I know, it's crazy. 15 years. That's like Paul McCartney has released seven albums in that time, and he's... on death's door paul mccartney is any day now and that's not wishing i love paul obviously but yeah he's suggesting this is not a rule of threes podcast there's a there's there's a picture like in times square of the track list so i think he's he's this has obviously been planned for a long time so and and as you can imagine he is shirtless in all the artwork of course i love i mean the the simplicity of calling his album swag it's Too good, honestly. It's too good. That's a brilliant movie. It's Huckney-esque, I dare say. It is Huckney-esque. So this new Lena Dunham show is out, and I think I'm going to actually... It's out today. I saw, because Raven worked on it, and of course, wiggled his way into a cameo. So he was posting about it this morning. That's how I found out. New father, Raven. New father. Congratulations to Raven and Dickie, friends of the program. But yeah, it's getting rave reviews. That's because Lena's the best. Lena is the best, and I'm excited to watch it. For some reason, I felt like it's one of those things I was going to hear about for another year before it actually came out. But I'm happy to see it. And also, Katie and Kevin did a cover of The Fray for the soundtrack. What is The Fray song called again?

It's not How to Save a Life. Well, that is one, but theirs is called You Found Me. You Found Me. Got it, got it, got it. But I've had it. It was sent to me a while ago, and I was like, wow, this is actually really good. I love the fray. They had some real slaps in their day, so I'm glad that it's seeing the light thanks to Lena, our godmother. And it's cool to be somebody like our godmother, Lena, when you're like, oh, you know what would be cool if... these guys did a cover of that song, and then you just text somebody, and then the next day they're like, here's the rough demo, let me know what you think. That's real power. No, it is real power. I mean, I think that, like, well, I mean, the thing with Lena is her output is, it may be a little scattered, but when she does something, it's good. So I think that there's a little bit of a, I think there's a little bit of a, especially if you're of a certain age and interest area, you know that, like, you gotta you gotta get down with it if you get asked yeah and i like lena sort of leaning no pun intended into her you know she's a real adult filmmaker now versus like quirked up you know 22 year old you know i'm just gonna make a show and see what happens like i like the photos of her in video village looking like a auteur i like the photo shoot i forgot what magazine it was in but it was like like Nick Cage style. Like, I think that was interview. I think that was, I think it maybe have been interview. Yeah. That's, um, but yeah, Lena, you know, if you're listening, come back on the show, we can plug it. And Meg, Meg also. I mean, we're, we're, I mean, I would even settle for Emily Ratajkowski. That's how desperate we are. We've even synced to that level. Emily's like, we're, we're still, Emily's going to have, she's, she's on punishment. So it's going to be a little while. Rita Ora does have a cameo, I hear. Rita, you're good. We're fine. No, that's not true. Once someone told me that Rita Ora is managed by her sister and they're low-key savagely rich for managing the money correctly and making good decisions, I was very interested in Rita Ora.

Very, very interested. Damn, you're turned on by the Grussler aspect of Rita Ora. You're Rita Ora Farming. You like what's coming out of the ground. I like my crop this season. Oh, shit. I'm Rita Ora Farming, and I like the harvest this season. Oh, that's funny. You dig? No, that's funny. So we announced earlier we're going to be doing the very first How Long Gone live show of this run this summer. We'll be streamed live on Veeps, V-E-E-P-S, like the TV show Add an S. For those of you who live in Portland or other places where we probably won't do a show, you're able to just watch it as if it was Coachella or any other live. performance, except it will cost a little bit of money. It does cost a little bit of money, but I think it's... You know what? We don't have to get a babysitter. We work clean, of course, so no need to go out and go to dinner. Just Postmates, that Bub and Grandma's, you know, get a little something-something, get the friends over to the house, crack some... Young Pinos. And get to giggling. Get to giggling. Yeah, it is the 18th on veeps.com. If you're in Minneapolis, get tickets, obviously, at Turf Club in St. Paul. But, yeah, I'm getting pretty excited for XO Tour Life. I feel like it's been a long time. I'm kind of ramping up mentally. I'm ramping up as well. I got a haircut yesterday. I've been working on some tanning. It's really hot, so I'm just trying to get a little base coat. Sure. For the stage lights. You know what I mean? No, totally, totally. I don't want them to reflect off of you. I want you to soak them in. Yeah. And, you know, it is wife beater season. You called me out on that. But I'm doing the thing where I mark some with a little X on the tag. Those are for fitness. That's my fitness wife beating. And then I have my formal wife beating, which is not marked at the most. Like all wife beaters, you kind of, you like to organize how you're going to do it. Well, just so.

You have them segregated. Let's say you got 12. Of course. You got six. I understand completely. I don't have to explain it to you. I totally understand. But Carolyn was like, why is there a fucking X on your shirt? Did you get that wife beater at Goodwill in the free bin or something? You're like, well, it does look like that after I've done my little pull-ups in it. It's complicated, babe. It's complicated. Why are my pull-ups going to be little? They're actually some of the longest pull-ups. That's actually true. Yeah, that's actually true. Ever. You're hitting a long stride on the pull-up. Oh, she's long. Long stride. She's long. She's lean. Shout out to restaurant Cento Raw Bar for having Carolyn and I over yesterday. Speaking of sitters, friend of the show, Al Wilmont, his sitter canceled. So it was just from a three top to a two top. Al's always got an experience. I tell you what. I think Al's like, you know what? I got some money on the game. I've hit the L. Oh, oops. The babysitter canceled. I don't have to drive to the west side. Yeah, maybe the L was more of an uppercase L than a lowercase L. It had a little bend to it, hit it a little harder. Normally, I would be fine. I don't want to put a couple spicy skinnies on top of what I already got going from this. Of course, from the hog leg. You have to hope that that was the reason the babysitter isn't just irresponsible. Also, speaking of hog legs, how long gone pure beauty pre-roll special strain is being tested right now i'm in the lab trying to get a good blend for uh for the workout as well as for the writing proceeds and the the packaging is done the packaging looks great i've been talking to sam about some concepts for the for the release i told sam only hand stuff only it's usually no hand stuff yeah now i think i think Are you down to roll a blunt and just have it be your hands? I mean, in theory, yes, but there's so much licking involved that I feel like I will ingest. You know what I mean? You really got to wrap your lips around that thing. What if Daddy licks it for you? If you lick it for me, then I think we're good. It'll be like a nice one-two punch to get that blunt in somebody's mouth.

Anyway, get your tickets for How Long Gone Live. We're looking forward to the show. We're getting close. And if you're not in one of the cities we're coming to, please stream it. London, get your tickets. And we do have a guest today. Stephanie Dandler is a writer, author. is probably best known for Sweet Bitter. She wrote an amazing memoir a couple years ago. And most recently, she wrote the foreword to the re-release of Vegas, the John Gregory Dune memoir. Most notably known for being on Emily Ratajkowski's podcast one time. Oh, of course. Of course. Yeah, of course. I didn't mean to. She's even done some books or some other stuff like that. Oh, there's some other shit as well, I guess. But all right, let's give Stephanie a jingle. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more.

So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from the Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone. It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together, a cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world,

is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code. How long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code. How long with the task rabbit app or at task rabbit.com. Yeah, you sound good. I think you got your headphones on. I think we're good. Sure do. I was just talking to Emily. I literally just. Hung up with her. Well, tell her to stop dodging us and come on How Long Gone now that she's got this TV show to promote. I said that, actually. I was like, you should be next to my friend. Yeah, she said you guys have friends in common. We do. I've confronted her about this in real life. So you said, hey, Emily, you should go on. And then she said. don't send over some dates and we moved on she said oh we have some friends in common and kind of kept it moving yeah she said please do not tell them that you know me don't all of anything you could do all right so you're in the you're in the are you in your office here this is a nice this feels like a zoom background yeah i know it's fake right it's like i read i have a liberal arts education um no this is my dining room in my house in los angeles yeah where are you in la what what neck of the woods i'm in silver lake where are you guys I'm in New York City. I'm in Glendale. Jason is in Glendale. Love Glendale. Yeah? For sure. I spend a lot of time over there. What are you doing out here in the Dale? Dude, I'm at the Americana. What do you want me to say? I've got two kids. Right, right, right. I live at the Americana. Do you just let them run around or you go there for a purpose? We go to movies. We'll walk around during Christmas. And I grew up in Long Beach, but I... grew up like in a mall right like south coast plaza like going to the mall is like a religion to me and i dandler that's where i grew up too where'd you grow up huntington seal seal beach i say because no one knows seal beach yeah and i i grew up springdale and slater which is like

The northwest side, basically the gateway to kind of Sunset Beach, Seal Beach. Sunset Beach. My wife's parents lived over there as well. You're trying to sound tough. What was that intersection again? You're trying to sound like you're throwing up a sed. Springdale and Slater. Oh, it's just like beautiful beach after beautiful beach. No, because it's funny. I was just at lunch. with some lawyers that are in real estate. We talked about South Coast Plaza for 30 minutes, literally an hour ago, just about how it's the best mall in the world. What happened? Oh, it's still good. Is it still good? Yeah, and I think that the... the it's the highest growth like I think they're people are doing numbers like I think you make money yeah great I love to hear that because the mall died obviously I went to the Beverly Center like two years ago and I was like this is going to be so fun and it was like a casino it was like I gotta get out of there well look hold on don't before we slander my local mall the Beverly Center it has been They've added a Gold's Gym as well as a Lucky Strike bowling alley to kind of revive, you know, pump some life back into that dead place. A couple of new places added where stabbings could happen. That's very nice and smart of them to do that. I think the only reason why the Beverly Center is still open is because it has that giant oil refinery in the center of it. You guys know about that L.A. lore? No. Wait, is that real? I do not. It's real. It's real. The entire Beverly Center mall, shopping center, parking lot, the whole structure is built around. a huge oil derrick that's that's pumping oil all the time oh wow yeah you can check out the google that makes a lot more sense then because i because i know egg sluts egg slots not doing numbers like that anymore so i'm sure somebody's got to keep the lights better their best days are behind them over at the slut I always was surprised that they never changed the name. They're just like, we're going to go down with this. No, it worked. It worked for a minute. It really did work for a minute. That's exactly. And then people started to hate women again. And then they were like, hey, I want to be clear, Stephanie. We've always hated women on how long gone. So welcome home. I see that now quickly and urgently. So we were supposed to pod a few weeks ago. Is that?

true wow you're calling me out for getting it wrong on my calendar no i was just if i can remind you it was when i was in italy and i had to leave a dinner early to come back to the room to record and then we had a no call no show jesus christ come on you guys jesus christ i apologize guys no i'm just kidding i'm just kidding it may have been christmas fault for all i know i don't know i just wanted to it wasn't it wasn't christmas fault the invite was on one day thank you stephanie believe men sometimes If women say you can, you can bully one man one time. They were on my calendar twice. It was a crazy week. No excuse. We're just kidding. It happens all the time. You're just torturing me. It doesn't happen all the time. People don't miss podcast recordings. I would prefer the straight up miss because then I believe that you just fucked up the calendar versus the canceling 30 minutes before. That is worse to me than not showing up. That's cuckoo bananas. I try to do neither. But now, you guys, I will live in infamy within your universe as the person that No Call No Showed. No, no, no, no. We have other people that outrank you as far as bad behavior. Yeah. So you're fine. You're totally fine. Well, that I believe. But, yeah, we were supposed to talk. And I think the reason that I'm here, well, I don't know why I'm here, but the reason ostensibly is that. the john gregory dunn book i wrote the intro for is that true or is this just for fun that's why they that's why yeah they got in touch with me but i'm a i'm ahead i've read both your books like i've read like i love the memoir i love sweet bitter so i'm i was um i i was happy to have an excuse to to talk that is so fun i i also watched the tv show oh my god you guys i was listening i did rachel kushner i did paperback event with her like two weeks ago And I had listened to her episode, and one of you guys was like, yeah, I haven't read the book. And I was like, oh, it's like that. They don't read the book. I try not to unless it's something I'm interested in. We do three pods a week. We do three episodes a week. Yeah, you can't keep up. And I'm already not a huge reader. Wow. It's hard. So sometimes I will do audio books. I will use AI technology to summarize books. Wow. I'll listen. It's not easy. We're not in that business, really.

You know what I mean? No, of course. I hear it. We're in the Stephanie business, not the book business, okay? Exactly. It's totally different. No, you guys are in the hangout and shit talk business. I love it. Maybe you feel like this too, but I feel like reading is a sort of luxury, like a pleasure. And if you only have so many hours to do that, you have to only choose books you want to read. You know what I mean? And just because I want to talk to somebody doesn't mean I want to read their book. Well, Chris is saying he doesn't want to read your book. He read them. No, I've read her books by choice. I bought them. I bought them. I do think you have to be discerning, but I disagree about the luxury. I think that if you are a writer, but even if you guys are thinkers ostensibly, right? What do we call you guys? That's very nice of you to say. Reading is... part of your job. Yeah, no, I think I do think it's part of our job for sure. I totally agree. But I guess there's just like, if I'm going to have an hour a day, let's say, you know, to read, I can't, I just can't do that. Also, if I'm not interested in something, I just can't do it. Like I cannot make myself do it, which is how often do you pick up a book and get 30 pages in and be like, this ain't for me? Multiple times a week. I get sent like so many books, which like my eight year old self is over the moon, but I'm, I like, read 10 pages and i'm like yeah this isn't this isn't gonna do it yeah you gotta know yeah i was actually it's interesting you asked that chris because i was gonna ask you know average how many pages do you have like a rule or is it just like you know when you know you know when you know sometimes you know five pages and sometimes it takes a hundred i will say i recently went to knausgard like i fell into the knausgard universe after shit talking for so many years I'd be like, oh, this is like the new David Foster Wallace is the book that like dudes are handing girls to be like, here you go. Like, this is what the world's really about. And I started the book again at this age of my life, 41 years old. And I it's a masterpiece. He's perfect. It's just like it's the best book I've ever written. Are you talking about my my struggle, my struggle, my struggle book one? I just finished it. So it took you years. And then finally, he's like.

I'm going to write 300 pages about going down to the forest to get wood with my friends and having a beer. Guy stuff. Guy stuff. He's done it again. First of all, Jason, you did read a book once because you read that book. I'm a big fan of his writing. Dude, it blew me away. I don't have a lot of faves. Yes, I think because my dad just died and he was a terrible addict alcoholic. part really really struck me usually i'm just like oh my god men and their daddy issues snooze like i can't stay awake but the part you're talking about when he's just trying to go to the new year's party to see a girl i was like how is this this is like a 400 page set piece and it's so good uh yeah i mean i think that writing something off no pun intended and then kind of going back to it years later and liking it is a nice, that's a nice thing because I write stuff off every single day of my life. And I hope that some of it will come back and be good eventually. Well, you have to have kind of a mystical, like it's going to come to me when I'm ready attitude about every book, because what you're saying, life is so short. Like we're not going to get to read all these books that we want to read. Time is precious. Our attention is gone. So like. it will find you. If it's meant to find you, it will find you. I think writing sounds more fun. Writing sounds more fun than what? Reading. No. Oh, God. If I read something, the chances of me enjoying something I read, it's low. But if I write something, then you get the joy of other people saying, wow. You've done it again, brother. You know what I mean? No, I don't. I do not know what you mean. Maybe that's a roundabout way of asking you, can you teach me how to enjoy reading? It sounds like you just have really exceptional taste and most books fall below that bar. I have plenty of proof that he doesn't, but we'll let that go on. We'll let that continue. Stephanie, you're not wrong. You're not wrong.

Wise to go down that road. It's crazy. We just met, but you totally nailed me. You totally nailed me. Okay. So you said, not to bring it down, you said your dad just passed away recently-ish? Yeah, he did. Yeah. And I've written about it. So we can, I mean, it's fair game. So that's probably very bittersweet. No pun intended. Yeah. So I wrote about my dad's addiction in my memoir, Stray. He's a serious crystal meth addict and alcoholic and relapsed for... you know, 20 years and I haven't really had contact with him in a long time, but he died in December the way that addicts die alone and surrounded by drug paraphernalia, like really ugly, brutal stuff. And if you guys have, since you've read my struggle, you'll know that it's just like the sort of descent into like filth and loneliness. It's just so tragic. But he was, a terrible father. And it is the, the one of the best things that's happened to me in a long time. And I feel like there's a grief community, but sometimes like it is a blessing. Like he was going to hurt someone. He like, he wanted to die essentially. And so. It also freed me up to write this essay about him for my sub stack, which I hadn't been able to write because I was going through a divorce and I didn't know how to write about it. And I was like mid like identity shift. And then all of a sudden my dad died and I was like ready to write. Let's go. I mean, because it was it was meant to be you were just waiting whether you like realize it or not. Well, I realized I mean, yeah, every time the phone rings. Right. You're like, OK, what's what's happening now? So you were still in contact, though. But you just weren't. No, we didn't. No, like I didn't. We didn't talk, but like every now and then a relative would call. I don't know if you guys have been close to addicts, but it's it wears you down quite a bit. I mean, 20 years is a long time, you know.

Like that's, that's like an eternity, but I'm sure there were ups and downs. Did he ever stay clean for a long period of time or not really? Not really. No. I mean, honestly, it's crazy. It lasted that long. No, he, I was like, he's never going to die. This guy, like all my friends, parents are expiring under tragic circumstances. And this guy is just like going and going. But, um, yeah, you know, you're, he was 70 years old and. to system couldn't hold it anymore yeah i think that happens yeah for sure i mean i i think it you can only take so much especially i think that with someone like that who's been doing it for that long i think that the product changes quite a lot You know what I mean? Yeah. Even if you just look at like weed, it's fucking turbo now. Like if you were smoking weed 30 years ago, you'd be like, what is this shit? You know what I mean? I'm assuming that's true in some ways with cocaine and meth and whatever, you know, it's, it's, it was, it was like an opiate based overdose. And what's crazy is when you get the autopsy, it's like the most impersonal sobering, like you're just a body being examined by a stranger. You're like, Six foot one, like this mole on the thigh, like it is so disorienting. But I'm like, did he know he was taking fentanyl? Sure. We don't know. Did you have to go, you had to go like identify the body? No. Okay, okay. No, no. No, I don't mess with that. He's on his own. I don't mess with all that body identification shit. No, you can miss me with that. Leave it to the pros. Leave it to the pros. Leave it to the pros. But I think that it's been like an incredible shift for me. After he passed, was there something that you may have subconsciously not wanted to put out publicly about him that you felt you were able to once he was no longer, even though you, he probably wasn't reading all of your work. Oh no, you guys, he loved my like tiny fame. Loved it. He, I once went to a reading at Powell's in Portland. Okay. This is book one. And this is.

true story. And I think I put it in the memoir. I alluded to it, but I get there and everyone's sitting down and the booksellers are like, Oh, your dad's here. I'm like, who come again? And he had been living in Washington state for two years. I had no idea. And he had been coming to Powell's talking to the booksellers being like, my daughter's books coming out. My daughter's book is coming out. And they're like, Steve, Hey, what's up? And I was like, that's really funny. That's really funny. So you had to so you had to sign a copy for a special. OK, so then he was reading. Yeah, he he was reading it. And he is, you know, it's like a classic narcissist thing. I think people when you write about them, first of all, I would be so horrified and I feel awful for all these people that I've written about. But. A lot of it excites a lot of people, too. They want to find themselves in the work. I might like to find myself in the work if it was a little bit hidden. Yeah, this is straight up. I'm basically saying your name. It's a little bit of a different different equation. I know it's really like a form of bullying. Right. It's really like you have the pen and you have so much control and like you can really wound people. I feel it, how aggressive it is. Didion actually said, like, writing is an aggressive act. And I've always, like, that's always come back to me in various contexts. But, like, definitely memoir writing is hostile. Hostile takeover. And is it, it's always sound, it sounds interesting or fun to really try to find that fine line where you don't go full, like, Capote mode where you're. destroying relationships, but like how far you could take those things without, you know, and what kind of language you use to make it seem okay. Is it fun to do that? Yeah. I think that there's some, you know, I love gossip. And so there's something, there's like a period. Welcome home, sis. Welcome home. Yeah, I know. That's like my sport. And I like it without like hurting people. Like in, you're talking about answered prayers and le coat bath.

1965, the Truman Capote story, that's destructive gossip, but there's a way to play. And I think that a lot of nonfiction does that really well. So yeah, of course. I just think there's levels to gossip where it's juicy and meaningless is the sweet spot. Absolutely. That's the number one zone that I'm trying to find at all times. And then it can go badly from there if you take it too far. I think with care, right? Even if you're discussing someone's drinking and their infidelities and their gambling problem, is it with care? Or is it like you are... not rooting for this person you are expressing so the care would be like it's fine that they're taking ozempic she didn't need to at all but you know she is like is is that a good it seems like that's the the hot gossip topic going around in my world that's not gossip everyone's taking ozempic i mean that's like that's just it's transcended like truly you sit down to lunch with someone and you're like whoa you look amazing and they're like I do. Yeah. What's the percentage of people that outright admit it? And then the other percentage who are like, yeah, I've just been in the gym, doing a lot of intermittent fasting between women. It's where it's full on. It's full. Yeah. I mean, with the fellas, if one of my homies sat down, I was like, I was on a Zen pick. I would be happy for him, but I would also. clown him obviously a little bit i mean you have to that's the that's the what you have to do but i don't think it's controversial either really that's what i don't we talk about it a lot because i do jason i'm the same way i hear about it every fucking day and i'm like at a certain point it the the shine is gone like i don't care anymore it's not interesting anymore and it's like it's the way that people were like misusing a medication that was specific for something else was really kind of taboo and exciting but we're just so far past that and hey if you're not misusing medication you're doing it wrong

Yeah, I'm not a drug abuser. I'm a drug misuser. I simply read the label wrong, and it's a positive side effect. See, that's when it's fun. Just doing something your doctor told you because you just had a baby and you want to drop 10 pounds, that's boring. It is boring. No, it is boring. It is boring. Well, I wrote down some notes for when you were originally going to be on, and I forgot why I asked them, so I'm just going to randomly go through them. Are you still taking Prozac? No. Speaking of drugs, okay. That is such a good question. That's like a deep cut from a craft essay I did for the Suwannee Review about how... If you say so. Yeah, Chajibichi went behind the paywall. Jason's actually a Suwannee Review subscriber, so he's been on this for a while. I dead-ass have no idea what the Suwannee Review is, but I read that, huh? Okay, so carry on. But no, it's such a good question because the point of the essay was that... I have 30 more, just like that. Cured my anxiety, but I couldn't cry, I couldn't cum, and I couldn't write. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer. And quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston, South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Visit BetMDM Casino and check out the newest exclusive, the Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at [redacted phone] to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. And I was like, oh, this is the key to happiness. not having these like crises of passion and panic. Like I'm just going to bake and read for the rest of my life, but I write for work. So it became dire pretty quickly. And I do, I think I've talked to a lot of other writers about it and tons of people are medicated and it's incredible when it works, but that like, I don't give a fuck. They're like the loss of the ability to. have sharp edges and like be in like this anxious frame of mind where you're trying to connect things all the time and how do they fit together and then it comes out in like an essay um when that's gone it's just like i'm gonna nap i'm not even gonna masturbate because i can't come i'm just gonna nap i'm gonna read i'm make muffins which is a cool life

I mean, what kind of muffins are we talking about? Not to get in the weeds, but. Well, you can talk to my kids about it. It's this like gluten-free, healthy banana that I add chocolate chips to. Don't feed those kids gluten-free shit unless they're celiac. I know. That's child abuse. That's child abuse. My ex-husband was gluten-free, so I got in the habit, but you know what? So he says lion-ass money. I need to see the blood work. For sure. You know what? Actually, praise gluten. This is my house now. I can have as much gluten as I want. You could go to the store all by yourself. Go to cookbook, get that ancient loaf. Oh, my God. Do I look rich? What? Not the cookbook loaf. I think you look rich enough. You look rich enough. You look rich enough to buy an $11 loaf of bread, Stephanie. I think you could do it. It is not $11. It is $18. Okay. Maybe I was looking at the bachelor loaf. Maybe that half loaf. Oh, can I just get a half, actually? No, a half a loaf of bread is called a bachelor's loaf. That's smart, though. I mean, you don't want to waste it. Yeah, Stephanie, when we had James Fry on the podcast, he talked about how he goes off of his medication when it's time to write. Oh. Album mode. He coordinates it with his doctor. to basically wean off of it and then go absolutely crazy for like three or four months and then like get back on it, which seems so dangerous. Yes, diabolical. But after talking to him for an hour, it's like, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, people have like psychic breaks when they go off their medication, but whatever works for him. But also what a great way to finish that book if the antidepressant keeps you from being able to write and come. Oh, yeah. Then you're like, oh, I'm just going to get off of Prozac for two months, do a lot of cumming as well as finally finish that. Restricting cum and then giving it back to you is enough to get the book finished is all I'm saying. I think they might be related. Jason, don't talk to her like she's an incel. Do not talk to her like she's an incel. Well, Chris, she has no problem finishing books. I'm kind of talking to you right now. I am definitely an incel, so thank you for approaching me.

With the correct pronouns. It's not easy to finish a book is all I'm saying. Some of us might need a bigger motivation. And name a bigger one than come. I need a gun to my head. I need you to stand next to me with a loaded weapon. I think this is the only way. What else you got there from the deep internet? Stephanie, do you do any impressions? What? No, come on, you guys. Do you do impressions? I do a few. I don't want to boast. Which race do you want, Steph? Dude, don't do accents. No accents. I'm not here for that. I'm not on my podcast. Well, I wrote that question down for a thoughtful reason, to be fair. Not on my hour with you. I thought you were trying to get me to do my Kermit the Frog, Jason. I thought you were just baiting me. Oh, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, Chris. Come on. Let's hear it. Hi, I am Kermit the Frog. Pretty good. That was pretty good. We'd have to run it by my kids, but yeah, that's fine for me. Do kids still watch that stuff? Does it still go? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's all kinds. There's the original Muppets. You can get anything. Yeah, yeah. No, I know you can get the original. I just didn't know if kids were like, this ain't Roblox, I don't care type shit. They watch what you tell them to watch. Hell, yeah. Hell, yeah. Who's the boss of this damn household? Okay, got it. Gluten. Yes, ma'am. And old. children's show yes ma'am whatever you say okay here's another one do you feel like your brain at one point in your life was broken in a good way yeah first of all i i feel like my brain was just broken when my marriage ended and we had to like readjust our entire life and then i came out of it and it was very um fulfilling my dad died i like went to mexico for a week i was reborn and I'm stoked on life, but I do think that your brain can break from sex in a wonderful way. Are you saying that the pool boy at the hotel in Mexico changed your life? What are you trying to say? No, no, no. It's separate.

separate stories we're talking about when you like go cross-eyed i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry you know okay so you guys can't have multiple orgasms like in the way that i'm talking about but if you are coming consistently for like an hour like multiple multiple times when you're done you are you're lobotomized you are just like you are in the upside down yeah and you're just like uh so deep put her ass to sleep in the words of ice cube So you're saying that you were rewired in a good way, and now you feel reborn. It was a hard reset with Dick. Well, that – 100%. Jason, don't assume that it was a man. Don't assume that it was a man. No, it was a man, but I'm sure a woman could do it just as well, if not better. Slay, mama. I think, like, just that is a way that you can break your brain in, like, a pleasant, senseless – Self-annihilating. I don't want my brain to be broken. A nut for the ages. A nut for the ages. Yeah, you do. No, I don't. I'm good. I'm good. Why not, Chris? You've got to get out of it. You're so heady. Both of you, but like all of us. I don't really. I think I've left those opportunities in the past. I think I am post. I can't. Because I think I would need drugs. And that's the problem. I'm sober, so I can't do drugs. You can do it with drugs. I can't do drugs. So I feel like I've already. So then you can. But maybe you can do it with sex. Maybe you need to have so many orgasms. Yeah, men, I don't think it works the same way. And I think that it's all. I'm sorry for you. You could at least try. I could try. That's true. I could try. If nothing else, I could try. Yeah. And then the other brain broken one was just, you know, like your classic crisis of a life. That was okay, too. Just took a long time. Crisis of life, I like that. I would rather have a crisis. Crisis has worked. You know what I mean? Crisis is work if you handle it the right way. The man who can't do drugs is like, I love a crisis.

Well, I feel so much. I honestly believe this. Once you like OD and wake up in the hospital, you're sort of like, what could be worse than that? Like what's going to happen to me? Really? Like what, what, what could actually be worse than this for the people around you? That was your hard reset. Yeah. I just don't, I think you realize that like, oh, well, no matter what happens from now and out, it's going to be fine. If I can get through this is sort of how I think a lot of people think about it. I felt that way about. this marriage ending, not because it was like such a perfect union, but more because I realized that my kids were going to grow up in a divorced household. And coming from my childhood, it was really, really hard to accept. And so but there is a little bit like I can get through anything at this point. And to see the way that my life like recalibrated people in the first like six months of that, they were like, you're going to be great. Like you are going to come out of this and you are going to be like a goddess, an incredible mother. You're going to have more time to write. But like things kept getting worse and worse and worse for so many months. And I was like, oh, shit, I'm like the one person who never gets better. Fuck. Like and then it did get better in Mexico with the pool boy. Yeah, what exactly? And an hour and an hour long treatment. Okay, I need to know more. Where in Mexico was this going down? Nobu Hotel? What's going on? No, she was at some real remote shit. Was there ayahuasca involved? No, you guys. It was more that I went away on vacation for a week. By yourself? No, with my boyfriend and friends. And my dad had just died. And when I came back, I was like, wow, I'm new. I am reborn. It doesn't often work like that. And I was in Todos Santos, which is not that remote. It's like two hours outside of Cabo. And I went to bed at 8 p.m. It's like the most sober, like healthy trip to Mexico I've ever had. But I don't know, something shifted. After thinking for months and months and months, it wasn't going to shift. I had a call with a friend yesterday who was just like, my full time job right now is getting out of this depression.

which is like something that only rich people say. But I'm like, yeah, man, you can't force it. Just one day you wake up and it's better. And you're like, oh, that was fucking crazy. Yeah. There's nothing you can do. No, I agree. Was this person a man or a woman? Definitely a woman. Come on. Come on. Male depression is an epidemic, Chris. Yeah, yeah. We're so sad. We can't make friends. No, I've heard. But Steph, how much do you talk on the phone? You feel like somebody who's rolling calls. Chatty. Yeah, yeah. Chatty. I'm chatty. You're walking around the house. You're having... You'll do any podcast. Multiple hour long. Yeah, yeah. What is this again? Oh, yeah. Sure, sure, sure. I'll do it. I have no idea. I'm like, I have no book coming out. Like, what do you think? What are we talking about? Like, let's chat. Dude, I clarify what I think via conversation. And I do think that writers are always writing, right? And I've heard so many writers say, I write to figure out what I mean, what I think, what my values are. And I'm like, I go out to dinner to do that. I am talking, talking, talking. And it is the richest part of my life. And I just think that if you are not living, your writing gets very stale and insular and academic in a way. where you're testing these ideas out for this like little, little tiny crowd. And you need to be out in the streets talking to these like psycho LA narcissists and psycho New York. Don't talk about your friends and loved ones like that. That is not, that is not nice. No, I love them. I love them too. You need them. I can't not live. anywhere but these cities because i love the crate i need like the craziest people possible you haven't lived in new york for a long time though you only i left new york seven years ago right before my son my son was born oh not that long because i was doing my show there and i was very pregnant i was living long distance from my then boyfriend baby daddy and i was like let's have a baby in new york let's like let's do this i had really not given up

And then I was like 34 weeks pregnant and I was like, oh, I give up. OK, let's go. Let's go back to L.A. Sure. When you're when you're going to these L.A. dinners with your psychopath friends, bouncing ideas off of them. What are the two martini spots in town for you? You know, I go to Prado and Echo Park. early before it gets crowded i go to um the capri club in highland park early before it gets crowded these are the wrong these are the wrong answers stephanie but keep going why okay so you're going to east side spots at four you're doing the 4 p.m houston's martini as well or is it just i love houston's beyond um but yes and then like Everyone goes to Pharmacy Devon, which is right down the street, and gets afternoon wine. That's more like the mommy spot. I've never heard of this in my life. Pharmacy Devon? I've never heard of that. Where is it? Stella owns a tiny little wine shop and wine bar in the Intelligentsia Stella Takeover on Sunset. And it's got these little tiny tables and it's a garden. And any bottle of wine in there, you can open up. And all the preschool mommies are there at like 3.30, 4 o'clock, like drinking rosé before they go get their kids. So if you guys are looking to pick up those moms, now I just told you. I'm looking to avoid those people at all costs, actually. But I'm glad to know. Those moms listen to our podcast, so we need them. Oh, they can just not listen to the podcast. That doesn't mean I need to hang out with them. That's two different things. No, I'm joking. He hates moms. No, no, no. What about martinis specifically, though? I don't drink martinis. Oh, you don't? I thought you were a martini drinker at some point in your life. No, I'm a Negroni girl. I get Negronis. Got it. No, I've watched those people drink martinis, and I'm like, do they know that that's just gin? I mean, I know a Negroni doesn't really have non-alcoholic components to it, but you are drinking a bucket of gin. That is like me when I was 21. It's nasty. I think that's the whole point. No, I know what you were. You were a vodka soda and a little cocaine. I know you were. Never. Never? Gin and tonic and cocaine. Come on. I apologize. Vodka soda is too chic. Like gin and tonic. It's a disgusting drink. Oh, my God. It is disgusting. I agree. So sweet. I feel like we were in New York at a similar time, so I'd love for you to run down your real spots.

From the heyday. So were you working at Roberta's back then in the prime time? I never worked at Roberta's. I worked at Union Square Cafe. Got it, got it, got it. And I used to go to Roberta's before it was even a restaurant when they first just had the pizza oven in there because my boyfriend lived at that spot in Bushwick, which was a, there was nothing around. I fucking hated going there. It was so far. Pizza is delicious, but it was so far. Had to take a Hummer to get in there. It's so far, and it was so desolate at night. It was so, until like, and now obviously it's a circus. Dude, when I first started going to New York, I was still in college, and I was living there during summers, and it was just like bungalow eight. That's what I thought. I thought that was your, okay, that makes sense. Marquee, bungalow, like we were clubby. Not marquee. I know, filthy, right? That's. That's so filthy. But no, it was good for a second. And we all went to a coffee shop right across the street from Blue Water Grill and where I would later work. I talk about coffee shop all the time. What a loss. Because I walk by it a lot. Because I would go there before I lived in New York when I was in my early 20s and just be like, I didn't know there were this many good-looking people on earth that could be employed in one place. It's shocking that that. It doesn't exist anymore. It's actually shocking how few late night dining options they are. I know Keith McNally has been on one about this right now because he's doing press for his book. But I worked at Boo Vet in the West Village and Jody kept the kitchen open until 1.45. Last call was 1.45 a.m. Weekends or every night? Weekends, Friday and Saturday night, but midnight on Sundays. So if you come in at 11.50 on a Sunday. You can order fire menu and we are there to serve you the food. And I was a graduate student then. I wasn't really partying, doing drugs anymore. But I was like, this is so important. Patti Smith would come in at 1.45 in the morning and just order an entire menu. And I'm like, this is the only city in the U.S. where you can do something like this. And I don't know where you do that right now. Our priorities have shifted as a culture. To what? To going to sleep early and not.

eating bouvet at 1 30 a.m which to be fair to be fair is pretty extreme based on the menu that i have seen at bouvet over the years that's that's not a light meal at 1 30 a.m yeah but but right now the restaurant industry in as a whole is it seems to be hanging on by a thread in in many cities all across the country so maybe this time when you could order fire the thanksgiving dinner at midnight on a sunday You're doing Coke off the wine keys. Everyone's fucking each other. There's no HR. You know, maybe that wasn't so bad back then. It was a definite moment. I talk about the no HR and no health code grades. Like when I was in restaurants, the health inspector. That wasn't that long ago. I didn't realize that. There was no health code. There were no grades in the window. Yeah, I just thought that existed forever is what I'm trying to say. I thought that had been around. No, the health inspector came. You slipped him money, and he went away for a bajillion, bajillion years. And I think between HR departments and the health code, like restaurants have gotten a lot safer, but at what cost? I don't know. Safer for who? If I don't see what's going on, I don't care what's going on. There is a cost, and that cost is too much to stay in business. business for most businesses. That is true. That is true. Like I say about everything, Jason, let them close. If you can't hack it, we probably don't need it. Wow, that is some gorgeous free market at work, my friend. I mean, honestly. And the icing on that one, Stephanie, is Chris does not know how to cook at all. So without these restaurants that he says are okay to close, he would be eating. I don't know, rice crackers. I could survive on Triscuits and Cheez-Its for at least a month, but then I would have to sort of... No, I just mean that I think that we're in a point in society where everybody thinks that everything is owed to them. And I think that if you want to do something that you're passionate about, there's a possibility that other people won't like it or care about it or patronize it. And I just think that's how it is. If you don't like this podcast, you're not going to listen to it. We're not going to make money off you. If your restaurant isn't good, people aren't going to go there and eat it because it's not good. I just don't know why that's bad.

I think that there's a balance. First of all, New York's always been like that, right? Like less than 1% of the restaurants survive. It's always been a cutthroat market for that in particular. But there are ways that you have to support the small businesses. It cannot just be a fucking free-for-all, fend for yourself off of your merit because no one's going to make it. The rents are too expensive. The minimum wage is too expensive. You have to think about environments that can sustain. small businesses or... I sort of agree with you as a small business lover. I'm a big small business supporter. I really am. Or we just eat at Houston's, which is dope too. Like, when we go to the mall and we eat at Houston's, like P.F. Chang's forever, lettuce cups, I'm fine if that's what you want. I just think that if you... But I guess what I'm saying is if you're going to open a restaurant in New York, you know what the deal is. Like, you know what's on the line. I don't think it's a secret to you what the possibility is of like... one review killing you or this or that or whatever. And I just think that like, if you're addicted to that and you want to do that and that's what you want to do, you have to be prepared for the consequences of it not going well. That's all. My first husband had two restaurants and I was like a part of an umbrella group. And like a lot of those businesses failed, but were. immensely successful by New York standards, right? You also have to kind of like change your metric. If you get a great review, you pay back your investors, you were busy for five years, you won the lottery, go gracefully into the good night and let someone else come along because the food trends move as well, right? It's not all Union Square Cafe, these 40-year-old. Sure. Institutions. Maybe that's why I'm attracted to those places. And I'm not going to wait in line for an hour and a half in Dimes Square for a piece of pizza. But, you know, to each their own. Really? Because when he was describing you going out to dinner every single night, I was like, this guy's in Dimes every time. I do like Dimes. I do like Dimes. We went to a restaurant last night in Dimes Square called Tolo that's really good. That's not super. But that neighborhood and what that has become, it's just so crazy how.

bad thing like how something goes bad so fast yeah no i so my boyfriend lives in new york we're like long distance and i'm there all the time and he's just like he's perfect and i'm obsessed with him but like kind of a prototypical 41 year old fuck boy right who has never cooked a meal for himself in his life is it possible is it possible that jason and i know him i don't know i don't we have to we definitely know this guy if you if you preface your boyfriend with babe you know i love you so much but i definitely know this guy he's perfect But he's like, yeah, we got to go to Dimes. And I'm like, sweetie, I'm not going to Dimes Square. Like, what are you talking about? I'd rather. I worked too hard to go to Dimes. Like, were you there when it was Les Enfants? Like, I don't want to throw around like New York street cred. Oh, you're trying to stunt. You're trying to stunt on this man you love and are obsessed with. You want to bring him down a peg is what you're saying. No. You want to remind him how much older you are than me? Are you robbing the cradle, Stephanie? Is this age appropriate? I'm not against that, but no, unfortunately. Okay, so you're age appropriate. All right, so this 41-year-old fuckboy that Jason and I have definitely partied with. I'll bleep it out. Can you say his name? Oh, no. No, because then I won't be able to talk freely for the rest of the podcast. Come on. Fair. Yeah, of course. If you are dating Dandler, send me an email. We'll have you on the pod next week. We'll kind of get both sides of this whole story. I better only get one message, too, Stephanie. Also, speaking of P.F. Chang's, have you been to Panda Inn in Pasadena? Do I need to? It's owned by Panda Express. It's like if Panda Express was upscale. being run like a Din Tai Fung type of situation. So military precision, it's like an Asian Houston's as well. So in Pasadena, they have a full bar, delicious. They have sushi. It's pretty good. I'll take the kids. I'll take the kids. It does sound perfect. Thanks for the restaurant, Rick. It does sound good. When I started dating my second husband, he ate at Panda Express, and that is like, I guess that's why it didn't work, right?

I was about to say, and you made it? He ate there on a Wednesday night? Full on. Full on. The dude I'm dating now is eating at Dime Square, and I'm critical, but this guy was eating at Panda Express. We got in a big fight about it once. He was like, you're such an elitist bitch, and I was like... yeah what happened to you like what happened that you have to eat here something bad i think both people can be right you know i think not eating food court and elitist there's a big spectrum in between i think there's yeah there's a big spectrum but i also think there's yeah two people can be right in every in every situation how much do you tip at restaurants nowadays percentage wise 21 And that's on tax. Yeah, for 1%, like you are, so your check average is looked at as your performance as a server. And in some cases, it determines the shifts that you're going to get. So you are like, oh, I have a 22% tip average. Like I get put on Friday, Saturday nights, like I'm top tier. And so what is the three extra dollars? The one extra dollar, the five extra dollars to me, it's like pretty meaningful. But I know people who don't tip on tax. That's so fussy and stupid. It disturbs me a little bit, but I think practically speaking, it might be ethical. I think it's okay. But I think it's weird. Stephanie, we don't care about ethics here on how long gone. It's technically okay, but it's sort of like saying, I don't really care if you die or live, but I'm only doing this for social cues. That's embedded in the experience. What is the point, though, to feel superior? That just seems like such an... That you're saving like $3, right? If you're going out to eat in New York City, you don't need to save $3. That's the reality. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. If you don't want to tip on the tax, go live in a place. place where there's no tax um but i've never heard that before just adding the one percent so the server that did a good job gets bumped up and potentially gets better shifts yeah i've never heard that so then if somebody is serving you and they do a bad job do you hit them with a 19 i've never tipped under 20 percent in my life

But there's two things. It's your tip average and your check average. So like how much you're selling every single night. And that is like where you rank in a restaurant. What is the secret to upselling? You're Jason and I's waitress. You see us. We're good time guys. We look like we got some cash in our pockets. How are you going to get us to fork over for the seafood tower? I mean, if you guys are looking to have a good time, you already want the seafood tower. And all I have to do is just like make you think that the other. like bros in the building are definitely getting the seafood tower. Like no one, no one who's a serious person who eats here would miss the seafood tower, but whatever you want to do. And then, and then the other thing is I was never like, I'm going to sell you a thousand dollar bottle of champagne. I was always like, I can sense when someone is considering their second drink. Like I can feel, I can feel it. And if you hit them at that moment, even if they were said they came in, I'm only going to have one tonight. Like I've got to go home in a little bit. I can feel it and I can get you to have four drinks, which is a much better for my check average because the bottle is priced at a discount. So that was, that's good. You can see somebody walk to the edge and know when it's time to push them over. Do you think, do you think that? I think we've reached a point now because of like doomwa and like celebrity culture where celebrities now have to tip, you know, 30 to 50 percent so they don't get called out on social media. Do you think that's true or do you think there's still some cheap ones out there? I kind of think that's true. I think like being close friends with Emily for so many years, she's really watched like she cannot like get. into an altercation or get angry um or even be honestly like in a bad mood yeah yeah when she's picking up her coffee and i find it nuts she's also like very recognizable like we have some musician friends that like

certain place like if they go to a coffee shop everybody in the coffee shop knows who they are you know what I mean Emily can't walk down the street it's a it's but but like there's levels to it but I think it affects anyone with any sort of like notoriety yeah there are there are definitely levels to it but I'll say like if you're New York famous which my friend Sarah Hoover who was on your podcast um used to say about Tom like if you're New York famous you better be paying attention when you're in a restaurant because the servers know who you are and like There's a there's a larger reputation at stake there. I would I would say New York famous is better than any other kind. Honestly, I think it's the number one. I say that all the time privately. I'm like, you couldn't pay me to be famous. But if you're New York famous, like give me some other examples of who's New York famous. I have my own ideas, I guess. But I'm just thinking Patti Smith, like before just kids used to eat at this place, you know. Do you remember Eno in the West Village? It was, like, super tiny, and they just had paninis, coffee, and wine. Well, she used to eat there all the time, and I'd be like, God, this is really New York. And it's really the Elizabeth Payton I waited on. It's, like, the artists. It's the musicians. That's what it is. It's, like, a different – you're right. It's, like, not actors and actresses in the same way. It's, like, people that matter to culture more. But I will say, like, being friends with Emily, like, Alex Consani and Z-Way, and, like, those are New York. famous people where you feel like you are a part of new york city if you see them on the street the way that sarah jessica parker might have been to like old women like myself old women to the to the geriatrics are we are we watching and just like that uh no i i'm not i'm not can't do it No, I barely watch TV and I'm a TV writer like full time is my day job and I cannot handle. I didn't watch TV. What TV show? I didn't know that. Since Sweet Bitter, I've developed nonstop. Sure. I mean, that's how I support my family. Do you want to make a show again or is it not worth it? I would love.

to make a show again. When I first started, so I make Sweet Bitter, right? And I'm an EP co-showrunner. I've learned how to write a script. I have two seasons of TV under my belt. It was like this incredible PhD education. And when people started paying me to write things that nobody made, I was like, uh, this is amazing. Like, what the fuck? And then after like five years of it, you're like, oh. This is why every single screenwriter is suicidal and in constant existential peril, because it's all throwaway. It's all absolutely nothing. You work your ass off because your name is on it, and it is just some third-tier executive's chore that they have to commission with their tiny little budget, and then it disappears. That's crazy. But at first, I was like, free money! Yeah, of course. But Sweet Bitter was like, I mean, do you feel like you made enough money? Do you think it was, like, worth doing? It depends. I didn't have kids then, and I was already living in New York. So, like, it was, yeah. I mean, you guys, I was a waitress. I sold a book for, like, a lot of money in the book world. But TV money, I was just like, what the fuck is happening? I don't think it happened. And that was on Starz. Just imagine if it was on a real network. How is stars still alive? Like I went out with a pitch recently and it was like a meeting with stars and I was like, huh? Those guys are still around. Oh, okay. Jason, thank you for saying that. Cause I was, I also had a stars joke ready and I want one of us was going to do it. And I'm glad that I'm glad that you do. I guess now that sweet boys, you too, these, uh, these short stories and unfinished novels are getting secured for seven figures. Is there even a point to finish anything or is it just, you know what I mean? Dude, I sold a novel at the end of 2022 off of a partial, right? And it was because I had had dinner. This is very name dropping, forgive me. I had a dinner with Brett Easton Ellis and he was like, yeah, I sold a book off one page. I was just like, dear so-and-so at Knopf. That diva. Here's the book I want to write, you know, and they gave me money. And I'm sitting here being like.

what the i've got like 90 pages of a novel like maybe i should sell it i have not been able to finish that book for a variety of reasons but i will never sell off of a partial again completed projects only there is something so there's like this spiritual side of it which is you're out and about talking about a project that isn't finished yet and you kind of like you let all the magic out of it in a way you turn it into a commodity too soon and then there is the practical side of it which when i did that event with rachel kushner two weeks ago some motherfucker in the audience was like what happened to that book you were working on about the menendez trial and i'm like bro do you think i don't know do you think i'm like that I don't realize that hasn't come out yet. Good advice, dude. Really good advice. Thank you. The one that my agent emails me about every two weeks. I should write that one. Right on top of that, Rose. Like it's really, um, okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah. When you talk about it, Jason, you got to finish. It has the energy in the universe that it's already completed. So why your brain doesn't even consider to finish it? That's real. I'm, I'm, I will. Listen, it's a privilege to write a book on spec, essentially. Most of us have to make a living, but I hope I never have to do that again. And maybe, you guys, before we die, I will have a new novel out. I'm sure you'll get around to it. What style works better for you, devoting one day a week to just knocking out 12 hours of writing or piecing it out two hours every day across the week? I am a binger. That's a great question. Because I was working two jobs in graduate school and I would go to these long restaurant shifts and I would write for like 12 hours on Tuesdays. It was like the same kind of principle as clocking at three o'clock and leaving at 2 a.m. And I wrote Sweet Bitter that way. And then Stray, I wrote in nine weeks in Barcelona with a newborn.

You hear that, Chris? Barcelona? Oh, did I say it incorrectly? No, no, no. Chris is in the middle of writing a book and you're like, I did it in nine weeks with a newborn. Well, Chris, do you want me to tell you how to do it? Yeah, please. You can't have lunch. You cannot go out to lunch. You cannot go out to dinner. You have to move to a different time zone. So that you are removed from your actual life. I've actually come to terms with that part of it. Like, I realize that now, but I'm glad that a professional has reinforced it. I don't... I just have too much work to do. Like you said, it doesn't pay. There's no money. So it's like you have to do all the other stuff. We have to record the show. But all in all, I think you're right. You just have to remove yourself from anything that is familiar, basically. Well, when you wrote the foreword to Vegas, did you go to Vegas? to do that writing? I had just been in Vegas with my children. I had just been in Vegas like less than a year earlier. And I'd been on a road trip through the Southwest. And I was like, you know what? Vegas is going to be dope. We're going to have so much fun. It's so colorful. The fountains, like my kids are going to love it. It's our last stop on this road trip. What a horror show. What a true... You thought Florida was bad. Yeah. People complain about Disneyland being the dregs of humanity. And I have to tell you that it is... in las vegas yeah what a terrible place las vegas is free disneyland's like several hundred dollars for your children yes it is it's not free when you take two two small children to carbone jason yeah no we went to momofuku and like gave them phones so they could like sit under the table so that we could just have a meal um no vegas is dark dark energy and that book is really has a lot of dark energy as well It is the perfect site of a middle-aged man's midlife crisis. And I think that there's like something very fun at play between him and Joan in that book where she wrote that famous essay in the islands where she said we've gone to Hawaii in lieu of getting a divorce. And they stay at like the Royal Hawaiian Hotel in Honolulu. And he's like, I've gone to like.

The Desert Sands Motel in Las Vegas, where it's 104 degrees and I'm talking to a. sex worker with one big leg and it's um he's really gone the other direction in lieu of getting a divorce gotta go in the other direction yeah that i feel like that level of vegas doesn't exist anymore i feel like you can't really get into some good old-fashioned vegas when that was in the 70s when that was going down yeah you definitely can't you definitely can't that shit is that shit is disney world like it really is it really is it's there's nothing i mean i don't know if there's many places in america you can find that sort of real debauched lifestyle if you if you wanted it key west i don't know i think key west is like but everything turns into just like rich people retiring if in that zone you know but yeah you may be able to chase it well it's like how sanitized everything's become like vegas is quite sanitized like it is totally fine for a child if you don't mind exposing them to like desperate sadness everywhere. You don't want your kids to see that many fat people in one place. I agree with you. It can damage them. She didn't say it. She did not say that. I said sad. I said they're sad inside. They're sad inside because they eat their feelings and that's what happens. You got to get this stuff worked out. I'm just saying. That was our words, not yours. Last question for you and we'll let you go. I usually ask this for some bad boy rock stars and things like that, but I feel like you'll do a good job in this category. Top five prescription drugs of all time. Oh my God. Let's start with the benzos. We're going to do them individually. I switched from Xanax to Ativan like two or three years ago because Xanax was not cutting it on the plane anymore. Then I recently took a Xanax again and I was like, welcome back. Like it is like a down feather bed. It's incredible. So we're going to put Xanax at the top. And then most people would argue between Klonopin and Ativan all day. But like, let's just put them at two and three and say that they serve different purposes. I think Ativan, like you can really stay awake on. Speak for yourself. Go ahead. Klonopin is hard for me to stay awake on. Next, I'm going to talk about beta blockers.

which are used for public speaking and I use for pitches or when I used to be on book tour back when I wrote books a long time ago. What an incredible drug. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And when Sweet Bitter, the show came out, I couldn't take them because I was secretly pregnant. And I was like, wow. Being up here talking to Katie Couric without beta blockers is a special circle of hell. So beta blockers really are that. I mean, I've heard some people talk about using them, but it really is a miracle drug for you like that. It's a total miracle. And I'll tell you why I'll get into the nitty gritty, which is that if you are on a book tour or you guys are doing some sort of event where you have to talk to very, very important people and you want to have a drink, not you, Chris, but maybe Jason, you can't drink on Xanax. You can't, like, you can, but that's more like an at-home activity. That's like, I'm going to have, like, a glass of wine. That's in a controlled environment. A controlled environment. Yeah, totally. Like, you're not, like, going out to dinner with the booksellers in Iowa after, like, 0.5 milligrams of Xanax and two glasses of wine. Hey, Sherry, do you want to? Sherry, do you want to split this bar or are you good? Okay. All right. I'll take it myself. I'll take it myself. I was hoping to stand later, so I'm going to pass for now. So that's the beta blocker we can drink on. That's a very important distinction. Well, actually, some physician is going to write you and be like, you can definitely not drink on beta blockers. I'm just talking about. Stephanie, don't worry. We don't have any doctors that listen to this podcast. Personal anecdote only. Yeah, yeah. Don't worry. Maybe I will consult my therapist to get the prescription for a little beta blocker. Oh, yeah. Try it. But I sort of like, I want to feel a little bit crazy when I'm on a stage. No, my friend says it keeps her sharp. But like, I don't. Like, I don't, I don't, I'm cool. If I get a little nervous, I feel like that's like healthy. So I wouldn't, I don't want that to go away kind of because it dissipates once, you know, once you're out there for a little while and things are going okay, it goes away usually. And it is like an in-person thing. Like I don't need it for zoom pitches, but I still do in-person pitches. And it's more that when you're like across from someone and they've got that like dead face, they're just staring at you and you're just like.

You can't speak. I love that. I love the dead face. I dare you to give me dead face. I'm going to fucking plow right through that. You have no idea. Have you ever pitched a show to Netflix executives? Because you don't know about dead face. It's a different level of dead face. It is literally, you're like. do these people like work at the cell phone company like what's happening here they're just like not awake you're telling me this guy's in charge he looks like he works at at&t exactly it's really really bleak and what's another fun one i don't really fuck with opiates anymore but let me say that there was a time in my life when my like saved up Percocet Vicodin collection that like, if I was like, it's Friday, I'm going to take half a Vicodin and get in the bathtub. And I would just be like, it's amazing. All right. Got to go. Thanks, Stephanie. And that is our trigger point for the episode. Thank you so much. We got, we got through it. We got through the full hour. You waited until the very last minute. And I appreciate it. You're a professional. That's, that's why we, that's why we called. Thank you so much for chatting with us. Go check out Vegas. Sure. The memoir by the Dunman, forward written by Stephanie Dandler. She's got lots of TV shows that will never be made, so you can not look those up. And you know more about pills than anyone else who has been on our show before. Really? For sure. You're at least top three of all time. That was expert level stuff right there. You're like, don't bury the lead, guys. We should have opened with that one. Yikesy. Okay. No, it's a common topic on our show. It's nothing to be. It takes one to know one. But I would say read Stray if you haven't. It's very good. It's very, very good. I appreciate that. I really like it. I really like it. You guys are great. Have fun. Thank you. Good to see you. Yeah, we'll see you soon. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.