489. - Alex Pappademas

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on youtube you looking good how long gone i'm looking good jason's looking good bitch i look good back in overcast los angeles before we get into it We will be holding all Met Gala content for our Friday episode because we're having an expert from Vogue join us to discuss all the festivities. So don't tweet at us tomorrow. Why are you talking about Jeremy Strong wearing Homer? We'll talk about it later. Yeah, Chris just said, please believe or am aware that the guy from Succession wore Homer. He's on notice. He's been greenlit. I've been put on notice. Speaking of greenlit, I realized that as a known union buster, this time in Hollywood, I'm changing my tune, and I am standing with the writers, the WGA, because I think that the reality of AI-generated chat GPT scripts is the only thing that could actually be worse than television as it stands now. So let's get these guys back to work. Okay, so you're not, I guess, reverse crossing the picket line. What would you call this? I'm just standing. I'm just going to be on the right side of history for once. For what? Okay. Well, and this has nothing to do with the fact that our guest today is a writer. Just want to clear that up. No, no, absolutely. Just a happy coincidence. I don't want you to be a flip-flopper. No, I would never flip-flop. I mean, this news broke last night. The strike started at 12.01 a.m. You could hear an audible gasp through the streets of West Hollywood as many writers with roommates wondered where they were going to get their sour.

gummy worms uh four for the foreseeable future yeah those uh those schitt's creek season three checks are starting to get into the double digits now so that you know all the guys writing the jokes for the cartoons they got worried they didn't know if they could afford their celsius anymore for the late night sessions and i understand it's the whole you know all these these fat cats these big wigs at the top of all these giant streaming services. They're taking home millions. Bernie's tweeting about it. And these writers, the creators, are left with nothing. The rules are not meant to be rewritten. Pardon the pun. No. Unfortunately, all TV shows are bad, so I don't know what these guys are getting paid for at all. But I do think that the only fate worse is... some bozo executives thinking that they can do better with AI. There's nothing that could be worse for entertainment's future than AI writing. Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting question because before the question wasn't, can we do better without writers? It was, can we still make money without writers? Yes. And the answer was, thanks to reality television, we can make way more. So I think this is the first time where it is starting to be scary, where it's like, could it be better than humans? We're obviously not there now, but... We're knocking on the door. I was thinking this could be good for you trying to break into the writer's room because they're going to need some non-union humans in there to kind of punch up the computer work. Yeah, that's called human augmentation. And here's my card. I'm available. I will work weekends as well. My day rate's not cheap, but you get what you pay for. He's a real human, though. Jason is a real boy. Go ahead. Kick me in the darts. I'll scream like a bitch. Not like these fucking Thinkpads over here. These guys aren't going to scream at all if you kick them in the nards. I wanted to talk about something that happened to me on Sunday night that I know you've been waiting with bated breath for. Well, before that, I just wanted to send a sincere apology to all the writers. We hope for the best. And to anybody who's at these streaming networks, non-streaming networks, movie houses, whatever, production studios, bigwigs, people that call the shots.

The they, thems of the world who are in charge of the game. How Long Gone makes three hours of content per week, and we haven't written a single word of it. That's right. We're available yet. Gone at howlonggone.com is open, and we're ready to start getting to work. We can put you directly in touch with CAA. They can kind of negotiate the terms, but we are available for hire, and unfortunately, we don't even need insurance from you. We'll just do it for cash. So it's a pretty good deal. I'm still a little iffy on just the act of writing itself. You know what I mean? Like just in terms of comprehension levels. Yeah, yeah. We can go off the dome, but if you ask us to write it down, it might be easier for us just to record the Zoom and kind of send it over to you guys to clean up the transcript. That would be great. That's still considered writing, I think. Sorry, continue. Yes. No, no. Sunday night, I went to... I guess it's, what is it? Is it Eagle Rock or is it Highland Park? Which bad neighborhood is it, Jason? That was kind of on the cusp of Glessel Park and Eagle Rock, kind of. Okay, so it was a great group of people who will go unnamed. Chris was really fish out of water in this very specific neighborhood. Yeah, I was invited with a great group of people who will go unnamed to break bread at a restaurant. called Dunsmore, that once I arrived, I was like, where am I? Have I been transported to Greenpoint in 2012? And they're burning wood in the back. There's, of course, a natural wine bar attached to the restaurant. So it wasn't looking good from the get-go because I'd heard a report because we went to see a former guest in front of the show, Caroline Polachek, at the Shrine on Saturday. And Caroline had been to this restaurant, and she was like, why are you going here? This is kind of like a duck and gland emporium. This doesn't really seem kind of up your alley. And I was like, yeah, it doesn't. Who knows? Maybe the menu is seasonal. Maybe it changes. Maybe they have an impossible blood sausage on the menu that you could maybe order. Exactly. Maybe it'll have some weird options for me that I wasn't expecting that weren't published on today's menu on Instagram. So we sit down, and the waiter is...

already annoying as a motherfucker like thespian like unplaceable accent let me explain the menu to you and the menu is really fucking straightforward there's no explanation needed so so far this be sounding like medieval times just for the record that this is what my problem is this is feeling like when i went to commerce in in new york where it's like what are these dishes why are we eating like we're in the 1800s like i don't need my robot to serve me pad thai but i need it i'll tell you why because eating like you're in 1800s is a fucking vibe, bro. It clearly is a vibe. No, it definitely was a vibe, all right. But I mean, I have many bones to pick, no pun intended. Okay. But the number one thing, we ordered multiple things for the table. The cornbread is the only good thing on the menu. Delicious. Fucked up cornbread with a southwestern style hatch chili for a little heat, which is nice and brought me back to my days in Santa Fe. Oh, wow. We order two pieces of fish for the six of us to share as a main, and usually ordering a fish as a pescatarian fish eater is a safe bet, Jason. You know what I mean? That's usually like, oh, I ordered fish because I eat fish, I don't eat meat. They brought two pieces of fish to the table, and this fucking waiter, of course, tells us what's on the dish, and he proceeds to tell us that the fish is topped with a... Ham vinaigrette. A ham vinaigrette. Okay. Ham vinaigrette. These are two words I've never heard used together in the same sentence. Okay. I'm guessing this is sort of a white guilt XO sauce. That's, yeah, I think that's, yeah. So I'm like, what do you mean ham vinaigrette? And he's like, ham vinaigrette, you know, and I'm like. bitch i know what ham is and i know what vinaigrette is but i'm saying you chopped up little pieces of ham and put some olive oil in it and threw it on top of a piece of fish and that is basically what it was and then i of course i didn't eat it i had to order a a second mushroom spoon bread just to give my stomach some lining to drink water spoon bread my dining my dining companions are like what do you mean ham so these people all eat ham and they take one bite and they're like

This fish did not need the ham. And so I just left. I didn't even order dessert. I'm so upset, Jason, that I had to stop at the Whole Foods, former Whole Foods [redacted address] home and get some rice cakes for the car because I was so hungry that I needed a snack after that medieval meal that sent me reeling. Wow. After all these years, you have finally become a real Angeleno. You're doing real Angeleno things, going to Whole Foods alone to get rice cakes on the way home from a dinner. This is your Everybody Hurts era right now. It is. There's no other way to put it. I ran to people I knew. I ran to my friend Jared and Marky. Jared, who produced the shoot for us for matches at the Whole Foods, which is also a weird... It's 9.30 on a Sunday night. They're like, what the fuck are you doing here? I'm like, well, it's a long story. Funny you say that. Actually, on Sunday, my brother texted me. He's like, I think I just saw Chris driving down Silver Lake Boulevard. I yelled at him. He's on his way. to Dunsmore against his wishes. I yelled at him from the car and all I wish I did was turn that fucking car around and slurp oysters with your brother on that fucking patio. My brother sees you heading to Dunsmore and in slow motion he's waving you off like a hundred foot wave. Don't go out. Don't do it, bro. Don't go. The conditions are too gnarly. This is a hot, cool restaurant that I've heard people talk about, and I understand why. Like, it has all the trappings. But I haven't been disappointed with a meal like that in a while. It was all just so weird. I think the wine list is quite good from my companions that are in the business. They mentioned that. So that's a plus. Yeah, I mean, I would say that you are a good friend for attending this restaurant, does not have a whole lot of vegetarian options. And, you know, it is what it is. And I'm sorry that you did go through that. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. And also, you know, Renaissance style anything is really not in your wheelhouse either. Like, even if the food was good, you would still be irked by the set and setting, I'm assuming. Yeah, probably. And speaking of Polachek, I was noticing,

when we went to go see polachuk so the same weekend you go to this restaurant Polachek plays and the Renaissance Fair of Los Angeles was all happening the same weekend. Hold on. We're in our Renaissance era right now. But you're saying that the Polachek show wasn't the Renaissance Fair. These are two separate things. Well, that's my point exactly. And a lot of people that I saw afterwards, you know, smoking a clove or whatever they do, smoking a quail's hoof or something that they use back in those times. And I was like... Did you just come from the Renaissance Fair or is this how you would have dressed for the Polachek show? Some people said Renaissance. Some people said Polachek. It was just in the lines were too blurred. Insane. And we got to run into former guest friend of the show, Jimmy Stack, one of our faves. I was telling him you could tell who the PC music nerds in the audience are because they're nodding their head in double time. She's playing some ballad. They only hear drum and bass. you know this nice slow ballad and everyone's swaying and you know in this ethereal fairy jungle kind of vibe and then you see the pc music fucking nerds and they're nodding their head like a you know 170 bpm drum and bass remix of this song that's happening Which is like, they are geniuses where they're just like, oh, this is like a whole, I see worlds that you can't see. Yes. But it's also so nerdy. I love it. The show, I mean, she was great. I mean, I really liked it. The fans are, of course, the worst, but that's every show you go to. But, I mean, when Charlie came out to do the remix. um it i literally felt like it was like an eruption i felt in danger a little bit for being straight in that moment yeah yeah i mean it was really like you were at rolling loud and you're watching and you're watching like with a hoodie and everyone's and he's like all right guys make some noise for travis scott everyone's like what are you fucking you know it was it was that reaction um and and i do want to talk more about this with our with our guest because live music really makes uh

A lot of sense with him, and he's on the call now, so why don't we give our guest an intro and patch in, and we can pick up right where we left off. Our guest today is Alex Papadimus, who's a writer. You've probably read him in GQ, the New York Times. There was a great story recently about Depeche Mode. But he's got a new book out with a co-author, Quantum Criminals, Ramblers, Wild Gamblers, and Other Soul Survivors from the Songs of Steely Dan. Jason and I are both not Steely Dan fans, so we're going to kind of try to breeze over that with him. But he is a podcast professional, so he'll respect that, I'm sure. Yeah, he's a man of intelligence and opinions. I've been friends with him on Twitter for many a year, as well as I'm sure a lot of our listeners have. So it'll be interesting to see if we can avoid talking about his book, the sole reason he came on the show. So let's give him a Zoom and figure it out. Let's figure it out. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, it... How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money.

When life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code HowLong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code HowLong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools.

So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, Alex, welcome to How Long Gone. Thank you. You were listening to the intro, I'm sure. We have a lot to talk about, but one thing to get the tires kicked and the engine started, when I was at that show, uh the polo check show there's a couple sitting in front of us and they were they were kind of unable to enjoy a concert that they paid money to go see of one of their favorite artists because of their attention span one of the people was you know when a slow song or a song they didn't like came on they were just kind of scrolling through guys on hinge and then the other person would pull up their doggy cam at home and just sort of like zoom in on the live feed of their dog at home. So why can't we enjoy just a musical concert like we used to in the times of Steely Dan? That's a good question. Were they a companion couple? Like they were together and then one of them was looking at guys on Hinge or they're just hanging out together? It was a girl. The girl was looking at guys on Hinge and then her... I don't know for sure, but I'm going to stereotype and say it was her gay that was reluctantly there. It was a gay bestie. I could tell by his cropped white fleece vest, like puffy vest he was wearing. We don't need to call out exacts in case they're listening, but yeah, he was her gay, and he was being sort of held captive against his will. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, look, we all forgot how to act.

during the pandemic, how to be in public. And I feel like some people have just never, never switched back. So you forget that you're in a public space where people can see what you're doing. They can see that you're not into it. But also, I mean, look, this was an L.A. show, I assume. This was here. Yeah, it was Caroline Polachek at the Shrine Theater on the beautiful USC campus. Do not come for the city of angels on this podcast, Alex. Not at all. But look, the city, you know, look, the city, she kisses me windy, like Anthony Kiedis. I love it. Like these, these crowds though, at these concerts, like I, you know, look, I felt like I, you know, I went to Depeche mode and I was thinking like, okay, I'm going to be in here with like elder goths just like exploding out of their seats with excitement. No way. So industry. And so everybody like is, you know, just kind of everybody got comped and everybody's just kind of like, isn't it crazy that we're at this Depeche mode concert? Let's not ruin our chances of getting Alex, let's not ruin our chances of getting comped just moving forward. Just relax with that. I will make fun of the regular attendees, not the industry folks. We're kind of in the pockets of those people. So just know what you're dealing with here. I will say that I also saw Iggy Pop last week, and that crowd was going off. slam danced into. That has not happened to me in 15 years at shows. I heard about that. I heard that it was extremely lit. It got nuts. We were just talking about that recently because I saw him perform at the Celine fashion show a few months ago, and it was Iggy Pop opening, and then The Strokes played, and then Interpol played, and Iggy Pop's fucking 80-year-old ass blew everyone off stage. like times 10 like it was not even a contest and it was so cool to see and all the young people who had no idea who Iggy Pop was didn't know his music by the end of the show were just like that was the sickest thing I've ever seen like it's cool to see an old person converting young you know kind of unaffected I mean you forget how many songs he has that were are just like anthems that are just going to make everybody just go off and just kind of lower their heads and crash into each other you know there was a point where I was like

Shit, this is getting really intense, and he hasn't played Search and Destroy yet. That one's still in the quiver. Yeah, no, I better back up a little bit. Still in the quiver. We got a little time. You're like, my man is sitting on some heat, and they don't even know yet, bro. Yeah. They don't even know it. I mean, I guess at these shows, I just feel like, I don't know. I saw the Walkman in New York last week at Webster Hall, and then I saw Karolin Polachek in the same week, you know, and the crowds couldn't have been more different. Chris, you're so diverse with your musical flavors. It's crazy. Well, I mean, the Karolin Polachek crowd was shockingly ugly, and we were blown away by that because I assume. Because she's so hot. And, like, the music is kind of hot. I just assumed the crowd would also be hot. Wait, what did I say, Chris? I said this crowd doesn't look good enough to be expressing themselves this much. Exactly, yeah. And my other friend, my friend Stevie. That's not nice. My friend Stevie, who was there, was like, I've never felt more straight in my life, and he's a gay man. That's how extreme the crowd was. Okay, so, Chris, you wouldn't say that you went to Dunsmore with him, but you're able to quote him on that one? I like that. Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. But I guess I'm always stunned at the crowd. Like you're saying with Depeche Mode. I saw Depeche Mode in New York, too. And I was shocked by how diverse the crowd was. It was all over the place. You could not pinpoint who the people were. Yeah, there were closeted 54-year-old guys from all... corners of the world but it was yeah it was just it's the crowds are almost more entertaining than the shows these days as a as an anthropological study is what i'm starting to feel that's a you thing i i kind of choose based on that sometimes i'm like i really wanted to see who was who was at iggy pop and it was that you know at first i was like oh this is everybody these are people haven't been to a show in 15 years and they're kind of getting out there but like i will say that you know they they brought it when it was time to bring it that's what matters yeah that's funny that you're talking about going to shows

for you know just anthropological studies or whatever i was talking to sam hunt who's a old agent friend of mine and he was saying like are you are you guys going to stagecoach tomorrow and i was like no i'm not going to stagecoach and he's like he's like dude like i don't like this music either but like this is basically like going on like an african safari for like a wildlife lover like you guys need to be going here a hundred times more than you need to be going to coachella Just in terms of absorbing people. Yeah, I mean, we could write a book on going to Stagecoach. No shade to book writers, of course. No, of course, never. I feel like that's probably more my speed, which is why I would avoid it, just because I don't want to be the thing that I'm supposed to be at my demographic age. I don't want to age into that just yet. I'm still fighting it off. as long as I can. Brooks and Dunn played at Stagecoach, and they do the theme song for our podcast, so you're preaching to the choir, sweetheart. Do they call it out? Like, you might know this one from how long gone. I mean, they should. I mean, we need to build with them. I'm sure we could figure out a way to get in touch with Brooks and Dunn if we really wanted to. Yeah, their lawyer's been trying to contact us for a while, Chris. We should probably reach out and see if they want to build. We could follow back. They keep sending these documents to my house or whatever. I don't know. uh alec so you didn't go to willie nelson's birthday party then either is that two up your street uh i was somehow my invitation got lost in the mail i did hear i did get some intel about who was uh performing at it and i guess it was like he had like an all white guys with dreads band because it's like don was and keith richards like that like you had to have that Well, Keith Richards' dreads are merely a product of not bathing. It's not a choice, so let's not call him a white guy with dreads. Don was, on the other hand, has chosen that life, and he's done it for so long. Yeah, it's cultivated. I don't know. Keith is a little iry. No, he's not. He's got a wisdom. Do you think he's ever smoked weed before? I do think he's smoked weed once or twice. I rest my case. He probably didn't like it very much. Doesn't he have a Jamaican retreat, like Ian Fleming or something? Isn't that where he fell in the tree?

Yeah, he does. What kind of music is popular in Jamaica? I'm not totally sure. I'm not totally sure, Jason. Come on, bro. He iry as hell. Speaking of music, Alex, I saw you tweeting, and Chris sent me this as well. I wanted to talk about Fall Out Boy's Crinal, where it appears to be a one-month-late April Fool's joke. Can you verify that this is real? They created a vinyl pressing system where you can embed actual tears into the vinyl pressing. This is impossible, right? They didn't invent it. They just use it. They're using. It's not a Fall Out Boy proprietary. Well, look, I know that you can put human blood. in in vinyl because i believe there was like i think kiss did that like you could get a kiss record like a copy of like destroyer with like paul stanley and gene simmons blood like mixed into the the the shellac yeah well that that part makes more sense you just you have the big hot pot full of vinyl and the nonas are stirring it you drop a couple drops of blood in there and it's all good the photo on the crinal appeared that it was like layer of actual liquid sandwiched in between two pieces of vinyl, and you could see the water bubble inside, or the tear bubble. I didn't actually see what it looked like. That doesn't sound right. Always click through, Alex. Pull up your tweet. I didn't follow the directions where it's like, do you want to read this before you tweet it out? I'm like, hell no. Hell no. I don't need too many facts. Oh, man. Oh, yeah. No, it's now I'm like looking at it. Oh, man. I can actually see it. It's got like, yeah, it's got bubbles of like, of, you know, I guess salty fallout boy tears. Now, how do you think they cried the tears? Like, do you think they can cry on command because they're emo or did they have to like method it? No, I think I think this is I think this whole thing is a lie and I think it's good marketing. But I don't think I don't think Patrick Stump.

was boo-hooing in Studio City to get this. I don't think that's what happened. I mean, Pete Wentz has rescheduled and scheduled and rescheduled this podcast 25 times in the last six months. So when he finally comes on, I'm going to confront him about these tears and who they actually belong to. Chris said, I'll give you something to cry about, boy. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I don't think that, but do you think this is, do you think what other artists do you think are going to, because I also saw a statistic today that, I guess more than half of vinyl purchasers don't have a record player. They don't own a record player, yeah. It's an official fact. So do you think, I feel like this falls into that category a little bit. Yeah, this is Fall Out Boy just really understanding, as they always have, what the market will bear. They know that they're going to sell however many. Well, there's only 50 of them. So yeah, absolutely. I feel like you could cry that much. And you know exactly what it is. That's a lot of tears. Even if it's broken up between four white guys, that's a lot of tears. I mean, it's like two guys of tears. The drummer doesn't cry. He lives in Madison, Wisconsin and listens to hardcore. He's not crying. It's three guys maybe. He cries the most. Oh, good point. Good point. He can't finish unless. But yeah, Petey Boy, come on the pod. We need to talk about this. We need to know. I have too many unanswered questions. This is, but do you think the vinyl, are you a vinyl collector, Alex? Are you a real head? You know, I was at one point and I, I've sort of, I have like a setup in my house, but it is one of those things like, you know, I feel like it's always, you always tell people, oh, you got to invest in physical media because the streaming, we don't know it's going to be gone. it always feels like the dumbest money like that i never i just sort of have these things around and i'm like i'm never i'm never putting this on just because it's not the room that i hang out in so it's kind of in the room and it's like it's become like a prop and i feel very sad about it do you have um you have you have like a family right i do i do indeed yeah that's the problem that's the problem those rooms only make sense when you live alone and then because you need somewhere to post your like cigar selfies in front of your like very expensive hi-fi like

This could be us, but you plan. It's a Macintosh. It's a Macintosh. But the speakers are vintage. Some people listen to music. I feel it. I don't know. Yeah. No, I want that air to be moving around. No, I mean, because it's yeah, it's not it's not in the room that I sort of spend the most alone time in. And so it's kind of of no use to me, except as like a thing that sort of marks me to strangers as a vinyl collector. It's just it's absolutely decorative. And I feel bad about that because I'm essentially this. Yeah, I'm essentially the same as the people who are buying the Crinal and don't have a means to play it because I'm never going to play it. Yeah, we got to fire up that Discogs and do a sale. I'm sure you got some stuff that's worth some cash. Yeah, there's some heat. There's some heat out here in the garage, for sure. Look, I'm not going to sugarcoat it, Chris. I'm sitting on some fucking flambés. I'm glad to know that a freelance writer with a couple books has got multiple rooms in his house, Jason. That's my main takeaway from this, is that you've got multiple rooms, and you're able to support a family. Your wife's family is rich, too? That's awesome. She actually does really well. She does really well. It's all that lucrative world of freelance magazine writing, being one of the last people in magazines. It's still working out for me this year, this quarter. The cream does rise to the top. If you are a magazine writer who's worth a goddamn in this town... Well, first of all, you've done how long gone, but second of all, you have a real job and you have a real skill still until the AI comes for you, right? I'm sure they're feeding it all my stuff right now, and they're just training it to write like me. That won't take long. It'll be quick. The robot will be here. It will come for me. Well, that's the thing. You've been beasting for so long that there's a lot of material to crib from and create the AI. There's a lot for the Alex Tron 3000 to sit through. Exactly, exactly. What part of LA are you in? Not to dox you, but just to kind of situate. Yeah, I feel like I've said it publicly before.

We'll talk about it. Do you know where Los Globos is on Sunset Boulevard? Oh, my God. Jason knows where the bodies are buried at Los Globos. I've only been there a few times. I'm sure Jason, yeah, for sure. You're aware of it. So, basically, I'm up there. I'm too aware of it. We can see that from the kitchen. What a beautiful view. It's really nice. Yeah, no, it was a nice moment at the moment I knew COVID was over was when the lights came back on at Los Globos after two years. It was really like a nature is healing kind of moment. I've only been there like two or three times in the course of having lived here for 10 or 12 years at this point. And having lived there, were you hoping that those lights were never going to come on again? I mean, I want the goths to have their goth night. I want that for them. It's better them than me, but I'm happy for whoever is lining up for whatever it is. is. Because there's still lines around the block for whatever is happening there on a given... friday or saturday night yeah but there's there's a difference between the the fun little goth night and whatever you know what i mean there could be like the the suicide boys tribute band you know you want those people pissing pissing in your bushes they're buying hot dogs at fucking 3 a.m while you're trying to sleep i don't know man it's a risky it's a risky deal over there it could go it can go some wrong ways okay so you're a silver lake local that's right going back to when the uh the reservoir runner died in the jacuzzi you know about all that i'm sure yeah some of some of that i mean i think we we've been here since uh like what's what like actually like marks us as as having been here it's because it was i don't know like when it was when sunset triangle was like first starting to happen was when we moved here so we felt at the time like we were the the carpetbaggers the interlopers the the gentrifiers and now we've been here long enough that we can sort of look down on people who are coming in now and so you know this this cycle of light i feel like that's how i know you were what a rush i know you're over there protesting

the Byredo store opening get these fucking corporate businesses out of my neighborhood I'm only going to Stella for bad fish. Alex, have you been to the new Pizzana over there in Silver Lake? I have not been to Pizzana. Everything is converting to an all-pizza economy here. Gradually. I kind of like that. I like when these active wars develop. The salt and straw has opened. [redacted address] you know yeah it's good like that's like yeah i mean like that's a good gelato place and i serve you know i support them but like yeah there's it's that you know moved in there but yeah um those i like them when there's two businesses like just right literally on each other's corner just really sort of actively walking with one another yeah i mean for whenever when it's like the coffee shop opens a few doors down for the other coffee shop it's a little like all right that's a little messed up but it's like It's coffee. There's enough to go around. Everyone drinks it. It's not that big of a deal. But when the, like, the poke place opens up next door to the other – when it's a little more specific, that's when it starts getting – or feeling kind of cruel. But the – I'm going to Pizza Ana tonight, which is why I was asking. Tell me about – I don't know anything about this place. Is this the one owned by – It's like a pizza chef guy. He's got a few locations in L.A. and I think another state maybe. But he's, like, known as, like, a – modern kind of pizza chef guy who does things a little bit differently but gained a lot of steam i think the original ones in like beverly hills or brentwood or something but they opened in silver like i went to like a friends and family like pizza party soft opening thing there like a month ago and i took an edible thinking i was gonna like plop down in some booth and just start fucking ripping down pizzas but it was uh it was like completely packed like wall to wall And I couldn't find any pizza. And there was just like dogs and strollers. I couldn't find any pizza. People just kind of standing around talking and nobody was eating pizza. There's no place to sit down. And I kind of had like a panic attack and left. But it made me think about when you invite somebody to a pizza party. Specifically, it's so low stakes. You're just saying like, we're going to have food. And that's all I'm promising. You may not have a place to sit. You may not have anything to drink.

You may not eat on a plate, but there will be food. There is some kind of a contract applied there. A promise has been made. I really don't like the name of that restaurant. Just let me put that out there. I'll run that up the flagpole tonight for my 7 p.m. res. As a known Zahed, what do you think he means by we do things a little differently around here, Jason? And why do you accept it from him and maybe not some other restaurants? Probably just watching documentaries. some YouTube shit or some food chef's table thing where he was on. And I was like, oh, you know, because there's innovation that's stupid and there's innovation where you're like, oh, that kind of. It may sound stupid, but I'm curious to try it, you know? Yeah, sure. No, no, that makes sense. That makes sense. But we don't know what the innovation is. It's not like a stuffed crust kind of, you know, real pizza science. No, I wish. It's being done on the corporate level. It could be some dorky, like, temperature shit. You know, that's kind of the stuff Jason gets chubby for. Yeah, it's leaning more in, like, an experimental sourdough starter and, you know, different leavening techniques and sourcing ingredients. and things like that unless... This one has chocolate fudge inside the crust. That's too bad. It's draped in a ham vinaigrette. Like a liquid nitrogen is involved at some stage of the process. Exactly. Gold leaf, dry ice, stuff like that. That's not what I'm after. The fact that stuffed crust isn't still dominating the pizza landscape is pretty shocking when you think about how... I don't think it was ever dominating. hutt introduced it as well as all the competitors i think it was a pretty serious competition for the crown it was playing the yuma tent it wasn't main stage though you have to you have to be honest Okay, maybe. I mean, I guess maybe you've never tasted the Little Caesars stuffed crust, but it was a, I mean, as a foodie, it's crazy. You fool! As a foodie, it's crazy that you've never had that. Do you know how much Little Caesars, I've been eating, I was eating Little Caesars when it was good. That's how long I've been eating Little Caesars. When I was a kid, Little Caesars was by far the greatest of all pizzas. And now it's sort of, it's like what you eat when your friend like bails you out of jail. I didn't even know it was that.

Jason, do you think that that's true, that it's declined in quality, or have you just increased in your ability to discern between good and bad? That's the question I always have. This is the question of my life, Alex. This is what I'll be writing my book about. Not like your steely Dan, but this is something I wonder all the time with McDonald's as well, where it's like, you know, has my taste improved from when I was seven years old? Sure. But has the quality gone down? Has the quality of ingredients? Has society as a whole crumbled more? Has the way people care about service industry? There's so many different factors that have changed. And I definitely think that the food at Little Caesars and McDonald's and almost every single restaurant has gotten worse over time. Processed foods, ingredients becoming cheaper. The population not caring about life anymore. The list goes on, you know? Yeah. No, I feel that for sure. But I always wonder because it is also like, wait, was this always kind of trash? And I just sort of recognize that now because I've seen brighter days. than this i mean like right you know because i have a you know i have a 12 year old and so like i have access to candy sometimes that i wouldn't ordinarily buy for myself you know there's like halloween candy around the perfect crime right yeah they're not counting it so it's like you know you have a twix and you haven't had a twix you know since you were like eight years old and it's like oh is that did twix get worse or am i smarter than i was back then i can bro twix it's both slaps bro you're fucking crazy Twix is slaps. No, I think it's fully both. I mean, because they've found a way to make the profit margins on Twix better and better with time and by getting worse ingredients that do the same thing, stabilizers and what have you. It doesn't mean that the taste is better. It just means that you can sell it for more money. or make more money off it. And I think that's across the board for all food, except for eating at Dunsmore. Like a little regret keeps you from eating too much of it, and I think that that's good. So really it works in my favor, ultimately, that you're like, oh, this isn't worth it, what I'm doing to myself right now. Yeah, no, that's a great attitude to have. I use that all the time where it's like this is not, you know, if it's not sparking joy or nostalgia, I mean, like I wish I could go back and eat a slice of Little Caesars.

You know, pizza where, like, the edges are all gooey and crispy and crunchy. And back when they used cheese that was made out of cows instead of, like, lab-grown hormone cheese or whatever. But you just can't. I want to ask you about some other breaking news, Alex, that we've been seeing this week. Yeah, please. About, I know, a friend of yours, Ed Sheeran, and kind of what he's going through with this lawsuit where if he loses, he said he's going to quit. He's like, bro, I stole this shit from Van Morrison. I didn't even steal it from Marvin Gaye. If I'm guilty, I'm quitting. is what he's saying. Well, can you explain the story for our listeners and me who don't know what you're talking about? No, I mean, it's a bit, it's just like he's getting sued by the Marvin Gaye estate for ripping off a Marvin Gaye song. And it's like, but he's basically saying like, first of all, I stole it from Van Morrison. Second of all, there's only so many chords losers. Like, what do you want me to do? Okay. Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, my first thought is that when this happened is like, man, I need Marvin Gaye's estate lawyer on my team. for this because i feel like didn't he there's also blurred lines wasn't that also that weren't they yes exactly yeah i mean these they are like these motherfuckers get it done yeah no it's like how like just you can't like george lucas will come after you you know came after luther campbell and everything just those who really policing those trademarks like a disney level but but is it Is it a question of his legal team being so excellent, or is it a question of Marvin Gaye's music being so excellent that it's like being Tom Cruise's manager? You just wake up and open your email, and the money's there. You don't really have to work for it. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, it just kind of pours in. Everyone is biting Marvin Gaye constantly. You just open the net and start catching dollars. Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's part of it. Yeah, these songs are so good, and they're just in.

you know their heads and everything they steal themselves they're so good yeah and i feel like also though if like as you you know like i i'm not a songwriter but like there are times when you're like dicking around on guitar and you're like oh that sounds really good and then you realize like oh it sounds good that's all along the watchtower or something like you wrote something that already kind of there's a reason this sounds so good yeah this sounds exactly like this why does this sound so good it's like yeah i came up with this myself and then like you realize you've just kind of pulled it out you just stumbled upon something that that already existed i guess if you're ed sheeran you just push through that feeling and just say no one's no one's gonna net or whatever and just let it happen yeah that's tough i've heard other comedians talking about where they come up with a joke idea and then they text their friends like hey have you heard this joke because i feel like it's so good that i couldn't have been the person to invent it yeah and is that the collective unconscious working or is it just that you heard it forgot that you heard it yeah all of the above but i think that he i i think that this does set i mean i i think that i don't know i think it sets like a weird precedent to be like this is too i don't know i mean i think it's like really i i think that like a The fact that, like, a judge who doesn't know shit about music gets to decide this is pretty crazy to me. But, like, I guess that's the legal system in general. Like, a celebrity producer. Like, Pharrell should be the one who decides. Yeah, exactly. Or Rick Rubin. Yeah, it should be Pharrell, Dr. Luke, Rick Rubin, kind of like America's Got Talent style. You need, like, a voice panel or something. Like, four guys in chairs sort of turning around, like, ruling. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. Totally. Yeah, counsel. We'll see what Gwen Stefani has to say about this. And also, I like Ed Sheeran using that as a threat to the legal system. Like, hey, trust me, if this goes... I'm quitting music as if the judge is going to be like, oh, no, I don't think he's I think he's saying that more in the press. Like, this is so bad for all of us. Like, I don't need this headache. Like, I can't. Right. I'm not going to write music if it's going to go under the microscope every time of people. But this is like a thing. This is like this is like, you know.

This happens in a lot of industries where people are waiting to sue you to make money. That's a whole way of doing business. The Marvin Gaye estate feels like they might be on that wave a little bit. Well, hopefully Ed Sheeran quits music is what I hope happens. No, don't do that. But that's weird. It's weird to threaten that. It's weird to hold that over as if that sort of has some legal bearing on the case. It's like, well, this will put me out of business if I can't lift. from Marvin Gaye or is it more of like I will be so disappointed that it won't be fun anymore. I'll just walk away. Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. I think it also gets in your head. You know what I mean? Where it's like, what the fuck? Is everything I write now going to have to run through some computer to tell me if it's too similar to a song from 50 years ago? It just doesn't seem fun. It is, though. They have that for sampling now that they're starting to use AIs that you cannot get away with. uh even sampling like you know a drum hit or anything because like they can instantly figure out like where it comes from like there's been a lot of like you know like people are using people are training these ais to find like i don't know i can't think of what it is but it's like the unfindable like you know dj premiere sample from you know 30 years ago like what was that we never figured it out and it's like oh it's this instantly sort of gets it in two seconds and like that's like you know yeah the chilling effect there is i feel like as more more profound i mean if i was ed sheeran i don't know that i i would worry about people calling that that bluff a little bit like i'm gonna quit music like yeah yeah don't threat me with a good time yeah no that's yeah to me that that there it's the same thing as when you hear comedians saying like oh i'm not allowed to say jokes anymore because the woke police will come get me kind of thing It's the same kind of whining for that, where it's like you've always been able to sample, you know, use samples in music or borrow ideas from other, what is it, good artists?

blah blah blah great artists steal kind of thing genius steals yeah genius you know it's it's all about getting caught like you can still take a sample or a joke or an idea and manipulate it enough and make it your own to where nobody suspects it and if you're just lazy about it and you just straight up rip it off then yeah you kind of deserve to be caught yeah I mean, there's a Steely Dan angle here to this story, but I'm not going to ruin the show. No, please, no, please. We'll allow one. We'll see what one feels like and kind of go from there. Is Steely Dan the American songbook? Go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. So what I love about them is that... uh they pilfered really freely especially from like other jazz guys like they you know from like horace silver and then uh they stole from keith jarrett so profoundly on the gaucho album that he successfully sued them uh for publishing and then you know 20 30 years later uh lord tarik and peter guns uh made the deja vu uptown baby out of black cow and Donald Fagan and Walter Becker have 100% of the publishing on that song. He's the only... So that's why, okay, that's why Peter Gunz does Love and Hip Hop then. He doesn't actually have any money because Steely Dan's taking all the tests. Well, he still has a lucrative live concert event. Absolutely. Now, is this even... I believe he has like a performance royalty, maybe, but... He's making about seven, eight grand a year from live shows alone, okay? So you're saying that, okay, so... This is similar to, I think, what happened with Richard Ashcroft and the Rolling Stones. They finally gave it to him in the last two years or something. They finally were like, yeah. We can finally make money off of Bittersweet Symphony, which is fucking crazy. To me, it's kind of similar to how the IRS is like, we know how much money you owe us, but we want you to tell us kind of thing. We know that you're stealing our shit, but just come to us before. and be like, all right, yeah, we'll split it 60-40 or whatever. We're happy to do that. If this song is going to be a hit, do it. But if you just do it without asking, that's when now I got 100%, bitch. Supposedly, too, they were about to legally, like Diddy Puff Daddy at the time was about to legally sample Black Cow and make a song out of it, and that would have been a huge, obvious payday for Donald and Walter. And then...

that song didn't come out because deja vu came out and used the black cow loop the exact same black cow beat and so it was like a it was a little bit of a little bit of a revenge move as well but yeah it's just fun to hear like you know lord tarik and or peter guns i forget sort of talk about it and be like so you're telling me that donald fagan wrote I'm quick to slide this dick up in your way, which actually is something Donald Fagan. You're telling me, hold on, hold on. This isn't adding up. I mean, I think that unfortunately I love that song. The Uptown baby is really a classic. I love that song, but it does add up now. Why? why Peter Gunz is doing reality TV. Because that seems like a song that would have made you quite a lot of money over the years. I think it gets played in like stadiums and stuff. You know what I mean? Like at... sporting events, etc. It's one of those songs. It's a song that you could live a modest but very happy, good life off of. Just the royalties off that alone. He's not uptown anymore, is he? You guys are in the music industry. You know that everybody is always like, I'll write another one that's that big. I got another hit in me. I agree with that line of thinking. I think that we live in a culture now where everyone thinks that they're getting ripped off because their egos are so big. You see it in every industry. crying on social media and it's like dude you didn't sorry like this nothing this is not original i don't know what to tell you chief like you weren't the first one to do this um and you have to have the attitude that you can do it again or you could crumble i think you have to have the attitude of like i can do this again i think that's a better way to live even if it's not realistic it is it's a good i mean yeah because if you don't believe that then it's truly never going to happen but if you do believe it There's a smaller chance that it will happen. Miss all the shots you don't take. Yeah, exactly. You said it, Alex. I don't even know. No, no, it's okay. So how...

how is the is the writer's strike affecting you at all whatsoever or not so much i mean only only in the sense that i feel you know a ton of uh solidarity with my fellow writers but it is it's it's like sobering to to watch it happen and to watch this thing that was once like a you know sort of a path to like a middle class creative life you know and it was sort of a sustainable middle class la existence and realize that that's you know as as tenuous as anything else and like i don't want to compare but it's as tenuous as as journalism where you just kind of feel it's like you know oh it's a gig economy job with no protections and like if you're really really lucky you can almost make it Like that, you know, that's kind of like, that sounds, that sounds awfully familiar. It's just, you know, but it's sort of, it just turns the, it turns the world upside down to not, you know, when you realize that those, those people aren't actually more successful than you. And like, they're, they're as fucked as you are in that moment as someone who is, who is not a TV writer. I would like to recommend that all writers kind of look into content creation as a pivot. It seems to be kind of the new future. And there's a lot of money to be made with sponsored content and posts, etc. And it doesn't require quite as much work as writing does. Same with crypto. These are both competitive spaces, but I think there's something to think about there. Alex, do you think we're ever going to see a world in the not so... distant future where there's a podcaster's union the podcaster's guild of america i mean i feel like it could happen i feel like there's a you know i've like i've like looked into what you have to do as a how much you have to write and how much content but it's hard because you have to do it at a wga shop you know like so you can't really join like it's your podcast has to be made by a company that's a wga signatory or something like that so you're saying you've tried to get health health care for being a podcaster before and it didn't work out so i've i've looked at it and it's another it's another way in which i've like looked at it and been like no i'm not they're never going to give that to me it's like another way doesn't hurt to check nope just check the bylaws check the fine print i feel like how many hours

I feel like Grantland and The Ringer is that. I feel like that's the union. I feel like that's as close as podcasters are going to get. Yeah, it's true. I was only asking because it's sort of relevant to my interest as well as somebody who... has to come out of pocket for that. I think the solution is to own your own thing and be making something that's generating money hand over fist. Let's go, baby. Now we're talking. This is some shit. I'm tired of everybody feeling sorry for themselves. This is what I'm talking about. We've got to get up. We've got to put on our fucking boots. We've got to sit down at our mid-century tables. We've got to record fucking podcasts. That's what we need. That's what we've got to fucking do. I have to sit into my Michael Jordan Shays Lounge chair but i do think there's i do think that and i get in trouble for this stuff because i'm a known union buster which is kind of a joke but i do think that there's a little bit of a a why i guess alex what i'm asking is why do you think people expect things to be fair because we've been proven over and over and over that that it is not fair for many reasons things don't work out things are not fair for almost obviously it that unfortunately favors um you know, a certain kind of person, I would say. Yeah, well, once you add the safety net of a union, all the sexiness and artistic merit is removed from being a writer, is what Chris is saying. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that I think it's the way that we've all decided we care about, like... we really care about what corporations are doing and expect them to care about us. It feels similar to me where I'm like, have you guys not lived on this earth and realized that no one gives a shit about you, especially Netflix or Walmart? I just don't understand where this expectation has come from. I'm not saying it's right. It's obviously not right. But I'm saying, why do you think people... I just don't understand that. I don't understand where that line of thinking comes from when it's been proven over and over again that no one cares about us. Especially if you listen to people who went through this, people who were striking 10 years ago, and the exact same conversation that they're having about AI and shit now is the conversation they were having about streaming and this thing called the internet.

way back when and you know they sort of like it seems like essentially like lost lost that war and like i think you just have to you just have to fight it like there's no other you know choice to you know than than to do it i mean you know i i don't because i'm a pure i'm just here in my house i don't have to fight anything i've already lost The only thing he's got to fight are these dishes. My ring light is broken. I don't even have that. I'm like just, yeah, I'm barely struggling. I'm just looking. I'm watching. I'm going 10 rounds with the tile in the bathroom today. That's what I'm doing. I got some shit I got to work on over here. Yeah, I'm fighting this kettlebell. I don't know. I feel like, yeah, if one of these podcasts clicks, I'm going to get a rug for this room. That's really what I'm thinking about. But, yeah, I don't know. But, yeah, I think the solution is like what you guys are doing is like the smartest thing. You just want. to be you know you're it's your thing you own it as a gift it gets bigger and more successful like you profit from that directly but also i think you figured out like what people actually want out of this medium like that was the epiphany that i had like listening to this show i was like spent last year writing you know like documentary podcasts that was really sort of super produced and super reported and super involved and worked with all these really smart people on it and you know how the story ends like nobody listened to it and like i didn't listen to it and like i came home i would come home from a day of making this show that like i'm still super proud of like as an achievement but like i sort of would come and like i'd be doing the dishes listening to how long gone and like that was what i actually wanted to hear like when i was you know so like there's something about like you know the medium's ambitions for itself and it's like vision of itself versus what people actually want which is the the parasocial experience it's the meme of the kid eating ice cream next to the picture of kids having fun eating ice cream it's like you just want like a parasocial you want like a fake friends like you want cooler funnier faster friends than the ones that you have we talk about that and we talk about that a lot like both on on the show and off the show but i i also think there's a lot of people out there that look at podcasting as like a service to make them smarter

And I think that's like your show was kind of like that where you would do these deep dives on these subjects. Whether you're interested in Pokemon or not, it's a giant multi-million dollar thing that there's a lot to be learned about. yeah and to me it's like people that's why the daily is so popular people want to feel smarter but at the same time um i just don't know which group is bigger you know the group that wants to listen to two guys bullshit with with someone or the group that wants to learn something i feel like it's neck and neck depending on where you look yeah but i mean you know just like just like the tortilla meme why can't we have both you know i think there's room absolutely for for both and and i consume both styles of content all the time just the same way sometimes i want to listen to rock and roll and sometimes i want to listen to hip-hop yeah no that makes sense that i mean i appreciate you saying that because i sort of feel like i was like oh i'm just i'm just doing this thing over here it's like i'm you know i'm making canoes out of birch or something and like what everybody wants is the fiberglass uh you know sort of uh multi-sale boat i bought mine from walmart why are you doing all that no no i just you know i think that there's room for both but i think that i mean the thing that i think there's not room for is fucking 50s radio celebrity voice like stories like i think that shit is too dorky for anyone like i just don't think that's gonna work i think something that i learn about learn about something niche, you know, is, is that's more appealing to me than like, you know, Jesse Tyler Ferguson playing a, a, you know, bell hop from the fifties. Like, I don't want to like that shit is like when that clicks, that's where the money is though. That's the ones that get turned into like Julia Roberts movies and stuff. Like that's how, you know, that's the thing. It's like the payoff is so huge on that. If that hits that you're going to keep, people are going to keep doing it. And it's like, I just sort of, I've tried to do it. I've tried to pitch them and stuff, but it's like, you can't.

Every time, what you end up doing is like, it's a fake podcast where people – or it's like a fake radio show or something, and you have to – I don't know. I feel like I can't train my mind to do that. Again, it's another thing where I'm not listening to these. No, no. I just think that to me is the weirdest one that exists like that, but it's because you can attach celebrities to it and get GE to sponsor it. It's a very easy sell versus how long gone or even a six-episode DVD. dive on Kendrick Lamar who like is a giant fucking I mean To me, he's one of the biggest people love him. They like him too much, in my opinion. I would imagine a lot of people would want to listen to that because they love it so much and want to hear more and more about it. You're being awfully polite to me. I know you're not a Kendrick fan. You're being awfully respectful of my work on this Kendrick show. I appreciate it. No, Kendrick is unlistenable garbage, but I do think that it doesn't matter what I think. It's like a cultural force, and he's sold a shitload of records. There's a lot of people involved that make it interesting, and his whole story is interesting, and he's clearly talented. So it's like there's a lot to unpack, whether I like it or not. He knows that it's garbage, but he's saying, I could see why somebody would want to compost this, whereas Chris would just rather throw it away. Exactly, exactly. But the composting is cute for you. Yeah. Yeah, but I think it's still important if we stop making these kind of well-thought-out, produced, considered shows. and it only becomes dudes talking or chicks talking or whatever, then we really are going to get dumber, and we really do need to have those, you know, a little bit more of a thinking person show happening just to round us out, you know, even if it will not make any money. And I guess back in the day that was, you know, through NPR or, you know, museum grants or things like that for the arts to preserve that, and now NPR is just... I listen to a lot of commercials on NPR now. Are you turned off to podcasting? You're like, this shit is annoying and not as prestigious as writing books, so I'm all set on this? Or do you think you'll make a return? It's so much fucking easier than writing books.

still and that's right that's right you get to talk to other people while you're doing it and you don't you're not like locked in a room just like just being sad sort of you know just letting god have his way with you or whatever so it's like yeah i am Just me and an ice matcha getting fucked in the ass by God. Seriously. That's what writing a book is. Do I deserve day glow today for the pages that I produced or whatever? Do I get that coquito? Do I trade up to the $12 one from the $8 one? Have I earned that? Alex has been listening. That's a good trade. No, Daigler, man, that's a shout out. That's, you know, down the street. That's a gentrification thing that I'm very happy is there. It's very, you know, whatever. We all pick the ones we like. We all pick the ones we like. Yeah, exactly. This is what's working for me. But no, yeah, it's like, but also it's like, it's communal in the way that, you know, sort of like music is or something and filmmaking is, but like book writing really isn't, you know? And so it's like, there's something about that. Like, I want to keep working with the people that I worked with. And so I want to keep. doing that kind of stuff in the future but i'm also sort of you know i'm also thinking about like oh like you know time investment and stress and strain investment versus like what's actually going to be consumed because there's just too much you can't i have my unlistened to podcast pile you know it's not a real pile but you know what i'm saying like there's so many things it's like so yeah With the exception of the one that my wife made, I haven't finished one. I'm not up to date on any of the ones that I actually wanted to listen to. They're all made by great people and their genius work and everything, but it feels weird to just put this out into the ether and just watch it float away. Not to get dark. No, that's not dark. I mean, I think that's pretty reasonable. I love having my career choice be reaffirmed constantly. Yeah. No need to apologize. Yeah, I love telling you guys you're not smart enough to write a book. You should keep doing what you're doing. That's my main takeaway. Well, and also another interesting part that I was just thinking of is the podcast community is very back-scratching, organic growth, helping each other out. You do your show. I'll do mine.

whereas the writer's world is a little more guarded and cunty and judgmental. You might do an in-conversation with at a bookstore, and the person interviewing you probably is jealous of you and hates you, even though they're feigning friendship and fandom. Whereas podcasters, it's like a golden retriever. You do my podcast? Yay! I do your podcast? Yay! We all get money. Yeah, we all get a little micropayment. Well, yeah, if you, like, sort of are doing the in-conversation event, I don't know about, like, the interlocutor necessarily, but, like, you know, half of that audience is like, this fucking book is terrible. I can't stand this guy. I can't believe. Can you believe this many people showed up? Or, like, they're all just kind of like, you know, I'm like, yes. I mean, that's how I've... i've been in that in that seat this drivel yeah just like just you know but you got to show up and sort of support it or whatever but you're like i don't know about this like and i'm sure there's people who are going to feel that way you know about you know when i'm when we're uh on tour the two against literature this summer. Come out and hate us. Are you guys doing a full... Where are we going? US? Are we going international? How far is this thing going? Going to Kiev? There's a London Shoreditch date because Joan LeMay, the artist of this book, is in London. She will be showing the prints of the actual illustrations from the book, which are these big, beautiful portraits of the characters from Steely Dan songs in London. Uh, but then it's mostly the rest of it is us. We're doing like, you know, LA, Portland, Seattle, New York city, a couple of Chicago. That's like a lot though. It's pretty, I mean, it's pretty, that's pretty serious as far as like, yeah, when you self finance your book tour, cause you're putting out a book with the university press, uh, you can go wherever you want to. Cause like you can just buy a ticket and go there and like, you know, people will be stoked to do that. So if you're just paying, if you're. So the way you do this. Yeah. Here's the key. Just take your own money and put it in a pile and just kind of, you know, sort of set it on fire. But like you get to go to a city. At the end of the month, they'll send you a bill or whatever, but you don't have to pay the whole thing all at once. You can kind of break it up over your whole life. That is nice. I like to say, yeah, I'm working with Capital One and Delta Sky Miles on this. And there have been some really supportive partners in this. No, I mean. Oh, wow. Brought to you by Capital One.

Not exactly. In a sense. In a sense. They didn't pay us, but they've helped with our transactions, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We have a transactional relationship. I do want to talk about your book a little bit. You know, we're only joking about not wanting to talk about it. That would be completely rude, but we will talk about it a little bit, not a lot. Sure. It's about sort of the peripheral characters in the Steely Dan universe, interesting folks. interesting anecdotes and stories. If you were to name one of these people in the Steely Dan universe that would kind of get us a little hard, who would it be and what's the story? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we talk about MF Doom in there. Oh, hell no. I'm going to stop you there. I'm going to go ahead and stop you there. Hell no, not MF Doom. No, no, no. We're catching largemouth bass, and you're not using a fly here. You've got to switch it up. Switch up the bait. I am surprised to hear he's mentioned in the book, but that's as far as I'm going to take it. All right, that's fair enough. Yeah, it's about all these weird characters that sort of populate these songs because they wrote in the sort of – There was two guys writing these songs, Donald Fagan, Walter Becker. They sort of created a third person who was their narrator of these songs. They are not necessarily autobiographical. So it's about all these weird kind of proper names and sort of speculating on who they are. Yeah. Well, exactly. Yeah, they sort of they have plausible deniability of having done any of the things that are depicted in these songs, some of which are, you know, illegal. And, you know, it's a white man in the 70s. Got it. OK. Oh, yes. White men with no accountability. Sort of like forsaking their accountability. But, yeah, I feel like Steely Dan were sort of watching the other sort of 70s white men engaging in their unaccountable behavior and kind of writing about them critically by writing and sort of getting inside their heads and sort of imagining what the lies they tell themselves to get away with. what they're doing this is like a the steely dan is like a fucking i feel like in the last three to five years there's been like a resurgence or popularity or or just like absolutely why why do you think that happened is it just like time caught up and a new generation discovered them or is there something more sinister at play are they is it true that they're fleetwood mac for republicans that is fucked up no wow

No, I'm not saying I think that this is just what I've heard on some of the blogs and stuff. I think that a little bit of it is that at some point and like, you know, Chris Black is like somebody who pays attention to what is, you know, pop things that are going in and out of style. we mined everything from the sixties and seventies. That was cool at the time. And you don't want to see any of it anymore. Like you don't want to see another dude who sort of, you know, it looks like, you know, he's like going to CBGB in 1975, like the skinny jeans. We've done all of that. Everything that was cool. We've revived it. And so in order to sort of continue, because like revival is like this thermodynamic law of, you know, how pop culture works, we have to start harvesting the things that were sort of off center and weird at the time. Like we have to go back to different, you know, that's really, that's really true. That's really true. It's smart. We've run out of past to split. So, so we went in. We went into the gold mines of the 60s. We got all the gold out, and now someone's going, well, there's some good silver in there, too. We might as well go grab that. Yeah, or even the sand and the granite. Actually, this is worth money on the market, and we can do that. So I feel like it's the same thing as dad jeans or whatever. At some point, we brought back all the cool jeans from that time and everything that was in the Levi's archive or whatever, and now we're moving on to stuff you buy at Mervyn's and that. That's like the shit now. So I think there's, not to say Steely Dan is that, but Steely Dan always never had that sort of moment at the time where they were sort of cherished by the culture. And so it feels like uncharted territory. And also they don't, they don't look like the vision of the seventies that we had. So I feel like sort of a younger generation can kind of imprint on them without all the baggage that comes with like a guy who looks like a traditional rock guy, you know, like the end front man, you know, like. So I think we've I think we've had that. And I think there's also, you know, just like.

the internet gets hold of something and you know i think the memes play a role because i think there's a lot of like people get into them ironically and then you realize that they're fucking great and then you can't yeah yeah it's sort of they work their magic isn't this so funny and you're like damn this shit actually once you get over your objection to like really really talented musicians like working at the top of their game and like realize like what a weird sort of you know yeah i feel like i'm at a grateful dead show right now yeah well that's the thing i mean right and the dead happened and like that sort of the dead thing like really sort of as like crested at this point i feel like they got you know absolutely came back in that same way and i'm trying to figure out like what you know as somebody who thinks about the market like what can i create this for another band after steely dan now like where is that going next And, like, that's the hard part. Like, can I make this happen for, like, NRBQ? Okay. Something like that. Like, just really sort of, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think it's – well, I think the tough part is I think there's a lot of material, you know, but it's got to – I think that Steely Dan has a pretty deep catalog, you know, and it's pretty, like – I think Dire Straits might be next. Yeah. I think I've seen a lot of Dire Straits content and people loving Dire Straits, like talking about it, and definitely like younger people. Are younger people like – I mean, but the problem with a lot of those older bands is you will like them – you'll either dislike them because their songwriting and their lyrics are potentially problematic, or you also might – They will grow in popularity for the entourage effect where people want to see exhibits of problematic behavior because they're not able to see it nowadays. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean... So if you listen to a Dire Straits song, there's some lyrics in there that are a little iffy, right? I mean, there is the... The F slur in Money for Nothing, for sure. But I think that's in character. That's your showing. Yeah, that's like voiced by the appliance delivery man. It's not Mark Knopfler. You know how those fucking appliance guys are, bro. Those guys talk crazy. That song has been banned. I mean, I think there's a lot of young people who don't actually care about that stuff at all.

I think that we're sold the ones that really do, but I think there's a lot of people who are just like, damn, this band rocks. I've never heard them before, and they look cool. I think that's still – I think that level of – Yeah, but I'm saying the problem is being – it's one thing to be able to look the other way when a song says an F-slur or something racist or homophobic or whatever, and it's another thing to listen to it. only because of that reason and to sort of celebrate it like everyone's too much of a pussy just you know make fun of gay people or whatever like that's like joe rogan fans just flooding out to dire straight shows like you know like people like when i was in you know in high school and someone's like check out this band screwdriver they're like a nazi band screwdriver is a good example or you know gg allen or faces of death like that same kind of thing like it's a shock factor but it's it's you have to make sure that you're like wow that's crazy not like This is crazy. I love it. I'm going to keep listening to it. It's my new obsession. Well, I'm interested to see who's next. I'm going to wait with bated breath for you to kind of exalt another artist into the zeitgeist because I can't do it, and I look to you for this. You can do it, Chris. I think that's not a winning attitude, man. I think you can do it. I believe you. Yeah, you're right. We have to figure out which obscure 70s artists that you're bullish on, and we could really. Pump the market. I'm not big on obscurity. That's the problem. You know, I kind of like, I like the, but I guess, I guess the whole point is they're like sort of, they're only sort of obscure and that's why it works. Yeah. Because they're, they're a super culty obscure band that has like seven or eight giant top 10 hits. right like so everybody knows who they are but then like it's sort of i've been trying to like compare it to things and it's like if like big star was also cheap trick you know like if they've sort of had like a sort of a second life because like they had like you know huge like hit songs that everybody knows have never left classic rock radio it's just there's this whole other side of it that people get into i i i can i i know dozens of steely dan songs if one of the members of the band was walking down the street past me i would have no clue who they are

You know what I mean? That's a good life if you can do it. Donald from Steely Dan has said that only now in this day and age does he get... He used to never get recognized on the street because nobody knew what they were. They were never on the covers of their albums. There was no videos. Nobody knew who they actually were. They could just walk around New York and everything. And now people know what he looks like. The guy from Steely Dan means. Fucking TikTok, man. That's amazing. That's really funny. And good for him for not taking his own life. Exactly. After learning that information. Fagan is still with us. Alex, thank you for joining us today on How Long Gone. We had a blast. And the book is out everywhere now, right? It's basically about to be. When does this come out? When do you think? Approximately? Tomorrow. Tomorrow. I don't think it's out tomorrow, but it is seconds away from coming out. I think it'll be dropping. It's going to drop a little early. People are starting to see it. People are starting to get it early, which is weird. I'm seeing a lot of people like, I don't think we sent it to you. I haven't already. So it's out there. It's about to be out there. And the book is titled Quantum. criminals, ramblers, wild gamblers, and other sole survivors from the song Steely Dan. Is Quantum Criminals a reference to a song of theirs? It is a reference to when Walter Becker was making, when they were making Gaucho, the final 70s Steely Dan album. He was explaining how he got hit by a taxi cab and ended up kind of just laid up and on sort of all kinds of opiates and like didn't show up to the studio. And his explanation was we were quantum criminals. We were two particles trying to exist in the same place at the same time. And obviously in quantum physics, what little I know about this, that's not possible. And so that was basically the best way to explain. That's the most quantum physics I have at my struggle. to explain that. Okay. But it was like a cool line that sounded like a song title of theirs, but wasn't a song title of theirs. Yeah, totally. It would have been way more commercial, apparently, if it had super SEO. If it was like, Steely Dan, colon, the something, something, something. But like, you know, God bless UT Press for not making me do that. Those guys are so cool. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thanks. Thanks to everyone at UT. Shout out. And you guys can follow Alex on Twitter to get updates on his book, the tour, and all of his stories.

We'll catch you down at Dayglo for that $12 iced matcha. Absolutely. Keep the Coquitos pouring. Thanks, guys, so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Alex. To a step all time