405. - Drugdealer

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Good to hear from you, bitch. It's Chris Black back on his Cali swag. sitting here in a giant suite at the beautiful Astro Hotel as the renovations continue to crawl to a finish. Them jeans, how are you, bro? Is the sweet green candle smelling good? I just lit my tomato and dirt Flamingo Estate X sweet green candle. Tomato and dirt? I love to celebrate tomatoes. And as winter... It's knocking on the door. Obviously, we're sort of moving away from tomato season, so this is the only way I'm able to embalm that scent until spring has sprung. You love a tomato so much that you've had to light a candle in remembrance almost because this season is coming to a close and TJ just needs his fix of the beautiful red nature's candy. A lot of other tomato heads say that it gets easier every season, but... You know, I'll let you know when that happens because it really doesn't get easier. It's always let down. Are you one of those people who wouldn't even eat a tomato if it's not in season? You know you can still buy them, of course, but would you just kind of bypass that and move on to something else? Like eating a tomato just like where the tomato is the star or like a sandwich that has tomato in it from Subway or something? I would say if you were a real head, you wouldn't even order a...

a turkey club from Jimmy John's with a tomato on it if it was out of season. If a tomato's out of season, I will sort of honk twice and give it a sniff. I'll inspect the undercarriage for color, cut, and brilliance. If it's not a BBS or higher tomato, I don't really see a point of putting it in my mouth. You can see some mealiness. I agree. Actually, I'm glad to hear this because I think that if you're really about it, you have to kind of give tomatoes the cold shoulder when you know they're being bad for you, you know they're being bad to you. you know, by not being in season. So I'm glad that you've kind of, you're taking a stand. Hardest part of my job, Chris, if you love them that much, you know, you got to let them go and they will come back to you unless global warming, quote unquote, continues to ravage our planet. Yeah, you keep talking about that. I'm buying a condo in Miami. What's going on? What's going on otherwise? I'm doing a juice cleanse today. I think I'm only going to do a halfer because I'm hitting Musso and Frank's for a little Hollywood dinner with friend of the show, Chris Chang. Don't worry. I'll keep it light. Shrimp cocktail, maybe a little salad. I am not going to have, I mean, you know, you don't go there for the food anyways, but. I wouldn't say the salads are super strong, but go ahead. Do you. Well, I mean, in an ideal world, I would be consuming no solid food except for some boiled chicken breasts while I get these gains. But, you know, it's show week. So you have to make some changes here and there. But I'm excited to kind of walk the Hollywood Boulevard streets on the eve of our show. On the eve of our show at the Troubadour. You know, kind of sniff the piss-colored sidewalks, the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Check out those billboards for different guys who have watched Instagram accounts. You know, old Hollywood. Yeah, no, of course. Old Hollywood. I mean... I understand wanting to reconnect with your culture before you kind of really dive back in, which is nice to hear. Where it all began, brother. It's like when Snoop Dogg goes back to his middle school. It's kind of like that. When Snoop goes back to the LBC, it's the same thing as Jason hitting Hollywood Boulevard. I'm going to walk past Greco's Pizza. They're going to be like, what's up? Where you been? Hollywood? Wait a minute. We are in Hollywood. But it does sound, I will note, before you move further.

Your voice has like the air of depression that sort of filled your general tone for the last few weeks. Oh. It has seemed to dissipate. You seem to have a little bit more of that spark in your voice again. Well, I mean, look, Brian, I did. I went to high mat this morning and did a workout surrounded by thoughts and mesh hats with, you know, lip filler. Mesh hat thoughts. That were on their phones the whole time. I'm driving my X5 around the streets like almost like a child in a toy car because I haven't been in a luxury automobile in a while. Did you find any lube under the seat or was it clean? No, no, it was clean. But he had it washed, so who knows what was there before. Can't clean everything, Andrews. We'll know. I'm getting my sea legs, though. It's like a little bit like I told Alex yesterday I was driving around. I was like, I felt like I didn't know how to drive. You know, being out of the Camry, the busy streets of LA, so many distracting billboards, you know, all this stuff to look at. Like a baby giraffe popping out of the womb, learning to walk for the very first time down La Cienega and Franklin. Exactly. I'm sure it's been tough for you, Chris. Look, I'm not saying it's anyone else's burden, but it has been tough for me, and I'm not going to kind of hide that. It is something, I mean, as somebody who loves studying. And science and things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's cool that you are keeping an eye on that. I find it fascinating as well. I was able to check on the house and the... Tile guys were there, burned the midnight oil. They were still there at 445, which I think is impressive. The tile people were there at 445 p.m.? That's right, yeah. I thought they'd maybe cut out early, but stuff's got to get done. You know what I mean? Stuff's got to get done. I didn't crack the whip or anything. I was merely there to pick up some shoes and some other things that had come from me in the mail. Don't mind me, boys. I'm just picking up some shoes. I don't think they knew that I was the homeowner to begin with, so that's fine. They probably thought... They just thought I walked you off the street, was going to grab a couple of packages and kind of head on out. I mean, they just assume you're either hair or makeup. I don't know. But what happened today that kind of hurt me a little bit was I returned, the prodigal son returned home to his local Whole Foods, and I was ready to be kind of embraced by the staff at the smoothie counter because they know me, they know my order, we have a nice rapport.

squinting their eyes yes is that that couldn't be him yeah is he back is that mr black and then um the the worst thing could possibly happen happened no employees that i know were there it was all new staff shift change i don't think so i think it's a turnover and i had to tell them my order verbally damn bro Have you talked to your therapist about this yet? No, I mean, I'm sharing with you and all of the millions of people that listen to this podcast that there's nothing worse than being a regular, going out of town for only a month, you know, and then coming back and all of a sudden your status has been downgraded. It's like if I flew United one time, went back to the Delta counter and they were like, you're sitting by the toilet, you know, like we're done with you. You're gold, but maybe, you know. But luckily, I'm looking at it more as a challenge for me to acquaint myself with the new staff and keep that kind of important rapport going. Let's do this thing all over again. It's like Blink-[redacted address]. Like, do we have it in us? Can we teach this new brigade my smoothie order? I guess we'll find out the hard way. This Blink-182 tour has really got people in a damn tizzy. I'll tell you what. First of all, I'm praying for Matt Skibo, bro, because you luck the fuck out. You look like shit. You're in a legendary band, Alkaline Trio. You've got the gig of a lifetime, making a fortune to play songs that... Legendary is a strong word for Alkaline Trio, but continue. How hard... Now, I don't mean to... And this is not disparaging to Blink-182, of course, in any way, but those songs aren't hard to play, is my guess. Except for Travis Barker. Yeah, except for what Travis is doing. He has not yet learned that jazz is about the notes you don't play because he plays every note. Sure. Matt Skiva's coasting along, and then they're like, all right, bro. The biggest tour we've ever done, we're going to make the most money. We've got to get the original guy back, so if you don't mind sitting this one out, we'll holler at you.

2026. It's the curse of the understudy. Skiba knew what he was getting into when he signed up for it. He had a good ride, you know? No, no, that's true. He made a lot more money than he would have made otherwise, right? That's true. That's true, yeah. I mean, I guess that's a good way to look at it. But people are up in arms because the tickets are going for $1,800 large. Yeah, I mean, that's not even the top. I think front row is like $2,400, something like that. It's amazing to me that Blink-182 has turned into like a Grateful Dead situation where like guys our age have made too much money on Bitcoin. and are going to fly on a private jet to see a band that talks about cum and pay $2,500 a ticket. Sometimes it's a bummer when your girlfriend's mad at you, but then she buys you a burrito from that one spot in Los Alamitos, and it's all good. I just don't. I don't not like Blink-182, but I just don't, I don't understand. I just didn't have that relationship to that. Like, I don't care about it at all. Do you think that our previous generation felt the same way when they would see, you know, like, like we would, like I went to go see like a, you know, like a Metallica or a Guns N' Roses reunion show. Yeah. And it's like a whole big thing and everyone's like, yeah, it's crazy. And then like the older generation is like. Guns N' Roses? They're singing... I mean, I would rather... Why do you care so much? I would rather listen to Blink-22 than Guns N' Roses. That's on God. But I think that, yeah, of course, it's every generation. But I think it's just when it's yours, when it's like, this is music I grew up with, and I should care about this, but I don't, and then I see our peers. trying to spend $10,000 to go to San Diego to see Blink-182 in an arena. I'm kind of stunned that that's where we're at. But I guess that's the problem. When you give... When you earn enough money, you get to spend it how you like, and some people want to spend it on Blink-182. I can't even imagine what that episode of the Kardashians is going to be like when they go hit SoFi in the black car. I wouldn't be surprised if Kourtney comes out on stage. Maybe she's kind of like a sub drum tech or something. Just for the camera. She doesn't know how to tune a snare, of course, but there's a possibility that she could kind of make an appearance. No, no, no. I think that her true calling in the world of live performance, we've got a lot of...

fans over listeners over at golden voice you know take notes if you got one of those kind of more you know a little moshier show we got we got turnstile over at red rock something like that or a morrissey style show where people are constantly clamoring on stage You know, we got Chloe in there with some kind of linebacker gear. Chloe's too ripped now. Actually, she might be stronger now, but she is thinner. So I think maybe she could be kind of one of those hidden. She's a little sniper. Her strength is not visible when she's wearing her Yeezy Gap oversized stuff. But if she puts on the aloe, it's game over. Put on the aloe. Don't you try to headwalk at this mad ball show around Big Chloe. She'll clean your little clock. Big Chloe's wearing a one-shoulder aloe set, and she will deck your ass. It's no problem. It's no problem for Big Chloe. The thing is with Chloe, it's actually fun for her. It's weird. She, like, really likes it. She says she gets her aggression out. Yeah, so the shows are this week. We'll see you tomorrow night at the Troubadour with Joe Mandy. And then we'll see you Thursday night at the Lodge Room in beautiful Highland Park with John Early. And then we'll see you at the after party at Burger Lords. And I'm ready, Jason. I don't know about you. I'm not ready yet, but, you know, we got to be. I'm not ready either. I was lying. I thought you would just lie with me. All right, we do have a guest today. A musician that Jason and I are both fans of, his nom de plume is Drug Dealer. I think he's an L.A. cat, right? Yeah, he's an L.A. cat. I know that he has a history of train hopping. Oh, I love that. He used to have a pet pig, or maybe he still does have a pet pig. Okay, so we got a freak on our hands. He comes highly recommended by a lot of friends of the show and people who have been on before. Said he'd be a good fit on the pod, so we had to hit him up. Let's give Drug Dealer a jingle. I'm excited to hear what Canadian Customs has to think about his nom de plume whenever he's playing over in Vancouver. Commiserate on stuff like that. We're going to have to have you step aside here for a second if you don't mind. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace.

Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world,

is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. You know, I actually am an avid listener of this podcast. Oh wait, that's a great way to start. Go ahead and name your top three how long gone's dead or alive. The first one I listened to was the Ion Pack because that's how I sort of found out about you guys in a roundabout way.

So I listened to the one with Curtis and KJ. I really liked that one recently with that country singer. I forget her name. Oh, S.G. Goodman? S.G. Goodman was good. Wasn't she great? Legend. I thought she was great. I really fucked with that John Vanderslice one. Yeah, well, I mean. Dude, dude. Because I didn't really know anything about him, and I used to live in Oakland for a year and a half before I lived here. I had heard about Tiny Telephone. I just didn't know shit about the dude, but he really spit some facts on that podcast. It's guys like that where I'm so grateful that podcasting exists because otherwise we may have never heard... People know his story, but they don't get to hear just him having a conversation that sounds fucking insane, and it's so cool. I'll go back and I'll look at our... We've done like 400 episodes and we've had Diplo and fucking Lena Dunham and Brett Easton Ellis, all these people. And John Vanderslice, a guy who no one has ever heard of, is always in the top 10 of all time episodes because it's just so legendary. There's something about the way that he was talking about his substance intake that I was just like, this guy is just like... No, no, agree. It was science-like. That's the thing. Being somebody who's gone way overboard to the point where you're not allowed in the ring anymore, Chris? Yes. How inspiring was it to hear? Because, I mean, I feel like, you know what I'm talking about? I'm somebody who parties really hard, and then I'm somebody who goes all the way in, and then I'll spend time not even thinking about getting fucked up or whatever. I'm always considering, like, which way is the best. You know what I mean? And I feel like, I don't know, like, I just, like, know a lot of people that have, like, had to go sober. And, you know, it's just a question in these realms that we, like, you know, that we circle in. No, I mean, I think that that guy's approach is just, he's from a different planet. Like, I've never met anyone that approaches drugs like that. Never. That's what I'm saying.

Listening to that podcast, I was like, oh, that sounds perfect. I'm just going to adopt that whole thing where it's like seven days a year we're just going to go Bacchanal on everyone's ass. Because his whole thing is basically like, you know, it's like he has like a rum springer like eight times a year or something, right? I forgot that he doesn't drink on tour. I was just reminded of that. That's kind of what I'm saying because I'm about to go on tour for. I think like 35 days and I haven't done a long tour since before the pandemic. And I really want to have like a really like meaningful spiritual time. And it's like the group that I tour with are like all my best friends. And it's just like, I just want to be like, you know, I just want to be there for it. And the way that he talks about it is like, just, just really like, you know, showing up and being present for the shows. And then when he's done, he's like, You know, and then he has fun or whatever. But I just liked his approach. It just seems very balanced. And, you know, like all of these things are so hard to figure out which side you stand on with like sobriety and stuff as you get older. But I just think that he obviously sounds like someone who's I don't know. He's just got he's just found some kind of way. And some some of my friends could could never have like held themselves to that. And they had to go different ways. And I don't know. I just like I kind of. Just after listening to that episode, I was like, you know, I listened to it twice. I was like, this guy has some stuff to say to me. It kind of sounds like when you listen to those guys who have optimized biohacking shit type of stuff, it had that kind of energy where it's like, I come from an intelligent scientific process and blah, blah, blah. And I needed to engineer a way that I could successfully be a fuck up in life and still work out. I got the feeling that... His relationships with his family and loved ones are probably so much healthier than the average person, even though. Oh, 100 percent. Yeah. Every story that he's told is like, I don't know anyone who would survive that, let alone. No, absolutely. I mean, yeah, like being a musician, being a writer, whatever, whatever you do, as long as you're not like.

VC. Well, I guess if you're that too, but I mean, you know. VC is an art, bro. Yeah, bro. Don't do that. Don't do that. Shout out to all our VC listeners. Shout out to all our seed rounders out there. I'm not coming for the second round of investors here for how long gone. You know what's actually funny though? Like you were just saying that it's, I think Jason, you were saying that it's cool that podcasting exists. And I fully agree too, because. I actually don't really listen to music that much. Like when I was growing up, my parents, my parents were biologists when they met and they are fun too. And, and they, but they, like, you just reminded me of that because of the scientists that kind of figured out their way to, you know, a good life, you know, like with through. The experimental, like the scientific method or whatever. Yeah. It's like, I really want to like live this way. Yeah. And I'm going to spend potentially decades on figuring it out. It probably won't work for anyone else but me. And you kind of get imposter syndrome of like, I guess this is work. Like, am I a healthy person? I guess. I don't know. Yeah. And you're always kind of like questioning your hypotheses, like just in your daily life. Anyways, when I was growing up, they just listened to talk radio, and they didn't really play that much music around the house. Every time we would go on a road trip, they would play one Fleetwood Mac Greatest Hits tape. They would just wear it out. But when I was growing up, there was not a lot of music around, and I was really, really into film from a very young age. Sorry to hear that. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Basically, I grew up listening to... like npr in the background all the time and then now and then later in life i found music because i realized that i wasn't going to be making films i went to school to try to make films and i was like dan deacon was down the street like playing rocking some crazy warehouse gig and i was like all right i'm in the wrong lane so i like went over there when i went to baltimore to go to art school and then i ended up making music but in the long run it's funny because i don't really listen to a lot of music like i bike

Every day in L.A. And I'm just programmed to listen to talk radio. And, like, my dad listened to Car Talk and, like, Fresh Air. R.I.P. Ever since I was growing up. So I think that, like, podcasting is the wave that I've always needed. Because I don't listen to albums. I'm a hypocrite. Like, I release them. But I'm just like. No, this is very cool. I really like what you're doing. No, I mean. I really like that. I'm just doing music because I like creating with my friends. But I'm not, like. I think you keep it pure that way. I think you keep it, because I actually listen to more music now than I've ever listened to and do not listen to podcasts at all, really. So it's the reverse. I listen to a few here and there, but I would much rather hear a beautiful new drug dealer record out soon on Mexican Summer than another podcast. It's the two sides of the same coin. When I first started listening to podcasts, when they first came out... I was so consumed in them that I completely stopped listening to music almost altogether. And then I realized or I started feeling or wondering if it was unhealthy because when you're listening to music, especially instrumental music, you're able to sort of drift off and your mind can wander and think about things and you can sometimes think about bad things and scary things and, oh, I got to pay my taxes or my friend's dog died or whatever. You have to think about good and bad things. But when you're listening to a podcast, and the cadence is perfect, and the editing is so crispy, like on How Long Gone, you don't really have a moment to think about anything, be it good or bad, and that can be a good thing for a while, but I think eventually you will need to listen to some Brian Eno and kind of... You will need to get on your own thought wave. Yeah, totally. No, it's very true, but I was just thinking that when I started making music, you know as you guys probably can surmise like i started releasing records in 2009 and i was like it was right at that period i started making music just to make one to send one media fire link to a blog that i liked you know like i was that was the period and that was what was going on it was like how i started too and i didn't yeah and i didn't think that i was gonna actually have a music career so like when all of that stuff happened there was like a watershed moment

That was like, you know, people talk about like the blogosphere moment. And it was a really cool thing that actually brought me into wanting to do music because it was never like I said, it was never something that I grew up wanting to do. Something that I got into being around like the Wham City, Baltimore scene and like picked up and it just kind of took off. But I think it's funny because I think that you guys started this during the pandemic, right? The show? Yeah, yeah, we did. Honestly, it has echoes of that blogosphere moment for us musicians, I think. When I met Curtis and KJ, I was like, this is like when I first moved to New York for a year. When they're doing their thing, they've been there for a while, but they're finding their scene that has a moment of exporting information really freely. Music has, you know, those same musicians like me that used to just make stuff and just throw it up on Mediafire and just make something. And later that day, someone in Texas was writing about it. That shit was so exciting. But then to the same right, as soon as anything that we were doing had any excitement or notoriety around it, then the labels come in and then they scoop us up. And then all of a sudden we can't. the same little pieces of shit that we made in our bedrooms that we used to release later that day, we can't release for a year and a half, you know? That's right. And thank God, thank God for the label system. I want to shout out all those guys as well, because, you know, without them, without them, without these advances, I don't know how you'd be in debt. You know what I mean? Like you need them. Oh, for sure. I mean, not everybody needs them. Yeah. Depending, depending on what kind of music you're making, how much gear you have. If you have a computer, you don't need them. It is cool though. And I think like a lot of, you know, ever since I met, KJ and Curtis and I was on their podcast, I was like, damn, I'm so fucking jealous of you guys. You guys are the guys who used to put me on to play a show at your college, and now I'm the one who's like, God, it's going to be six months until people hear this thing that I made two years ago, and you guys are releasing just shit left and right. Yeah, it was just really amazing. Yeah, there are some pros and cons to that. I mean, I always sympathize when I hear about writers when they finish a book.

Because when I finish a podcast, I'm like, pretty cool episode. I'm going to upload it. And then tomorrow I'm going to make another one. But if you wrote a book or you made an album or you made a movie and you're like, all right, I'm done. Pencils up. Let's go. And then, like you said, two years later, it hits the shelves for whatever reason. And I think back in the day, the reasons made a lot more sense. Or you just said, you just listened to whatever they told you. But now it's kind of like. Can you tell me why it does take two years for this? Exactly. For sure. Just with the internet age, a lot of artists are also moving away from who have gotten a fan base. You're going to see them moving away from the label system just because people just can distribute music, podcasts, freely, whatever. There's different stages in people's career where different... platforming helps them more and then there's stages where but you know is it there's something to be said about having that beautiful columbia records stamp on the back or maybe a sub pop you know logo or you know something like that's the problem is that i'm too old to be like self-released means that you couldn't get anybody to put it out yeah you know what i'm saying like for sure for sure i'm not saying that's right but that is where my head goes that is an old person's argument yeah and you're i think you like i said you're you're more of like you've been in the music scene longer way longer than i have for me like i started like i'm when i started making music when i like really trying to make music when i was like 20 i didn't have this relationship with like have seeing cds or like wanting to be in a band so like you know when i was 20 that's kind of why drug dealer sounds the way it does because i was like oh fuck like three records that my parents used to play like jackson brown and the beatles i was like damn that's all you got i was like these people are making this noise music over here and i'm never going to be as cool as them but uh maybe this music that my parents showed me is actually pretty dope and so like i'm like finding out about stuff that like everyone knew about when they were like 13 at like 25 you know and you're you're like check out this throbbing gristle guys it's awesome like no we're good i found out about all that stuff

Yeah, too early. Sooner because of the scene in Baltimore that I lived in. Yeah, I got kind of burned. Well, that scene in Baltimore, I mean, I understand it a little bit as a bystander because I was probably in New York at that time, but it was a real freak show. Yeah. That was the whole thing. I went to Micah, the art school there, to try to do film, quote unquote, and then I immediately found out that either that wasn't the coolest route for me to go or just I wasn't really ready to. Immediately, I moved into the room that Dan Deacon lived in for a couple years in this warehouse where the Wham City Collective was. That must have smelled crazy in there, bro. I have a quick Dan Deacon story. No, please, go ahead. This is quite a long time ago. First of all, I hate Halloween, but I was at this Halloween party, and I, of course, wasn't dressed up. I was forced to be at this party. It's a longer story. But a man approached me, a sort of jockish regular bro approached me, and he was like, oh, you're dressed up like Dan Deacon. And I was like, bro, I'll beat you. I was on coke, of course. I was like, bro, I'll beat your ass right here. It caused a lot of problems in my personal life, and I don't know Dan, and that's not a shot at Dan necessarily. But I didn't see the similarities at the time, so it was deeply offensive to me, and I had to defend my honor. But now looking back, it was like, yeah, I mean, whatever. We're two white guys with glasses. It's all the same shit at a certain point. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess that – Yeah, if you're on Coke and you think that you look pretty cool and somebody asks you, are you dressed up as Danny Deacon for Halloween? That's one of the more offensive things you could ever tell a sartorialist. That's what I'm saying. I was ready to take this guy down to the map. You know what I mean? Luckily, we were broken up before anything could happen. But just a quick aside there. I apologize. Oh, no, absolutely. But it really was a freak show. I didn't know what I was getting into. When I moved there, I was like, I moved there to go to the school, and then I decided not to go to the school. And then all of a sudden, it was just like, here's the city, basically, that is so...

depressed economically that all of these crazy artists from new york and all these other east coast cities have descended upon here to just like have basically a free form wonderland like sounds like antifa yeah it does sound like antifa it was pre it was pre-antifa what are the bigger exports that people might might recognize from this era other than dan deacon of course and i don't mean physically big yeah no like um people you know like Beach House, Jana Hunter, Future Islands. These are the few, but you've got to understand, these are the few bands that were like, we're going to make songs with words. A lot of the stuff that was really good, that really inspired me and a lot of my other friends to just make any of the types of art that we do make. They were the types of stuff that could not be exported even four hours up to New York to the tri-state area. It was too weird. The files themselves couldn't be exported. The computer kept crashing. It was just like, no, I refuse. The kind of thing that could only be played on Og Vorbis on Neil Young Toblerone speakers. No, but those people, the people who I came up around that were doing, the people that were left of, If Dan Deacon is Miley Cyrus, then they're, you know, like John Kale. Those were a lot of the people that I lived around. And I was really inspired by, you know, just being someone who hadn't done music as a young person. I was like, well, there's really no rules. And then ironically, I decided to go the other way, which was to spend 10 painstaking years trying to learn without actually any real schooling, just how to write. songs and yeah it took a long fucking time basically but hey man we're still learning aren't we all right so if you're not if you're not playing music in like high school are you just like watching 10 hours of movies a day in like a dark room i don't understand no i i i was like a really avid skateboarder my whole life until the pandemic oh okay so you're saying drug dealers got a little tray flip on them then okay drug dealers good

tray flips but mostly pop shove it tail grabs which is if you've ever skated is really not a very trendy trick um when i grew up in boston i had like no friends that skated i was like just like i skated by myself a lot and like like i said i was really into film but i would like write short stories i was like a really troubled kid is basically what i'm saying and like i played sports like i i was the captain of the soccer team but i was also one of the only kids in this little waspy new england town in massachusetts that like was starting to fuck around with like mushrooms and stuff so like i just didn't really fit in where i sure where i grew up and and yeah but but i skated a lot and then but i never had any friends skating and then once i moved i moved to several different cities before i moved to la but like once i got here it was the first time in my life when i actually had people to skate with because it's like a skateboard sure this is mecca this is mecca yeah so i like you know i kind of fell out from skating in the middle of my 20s when i was traveling a lot and and then i had like a second wind of skating i'd skated my whole childhood that was like you know just i think a lot of people in their like late 20s early 30s probably wouldn't have were like all of a sudden i was skating with some of the people that i grew up like idolizing becoming friends with them because you know they're they make music too and you know like we run in the same circles and i end up skating with these people some of them like played in drug dealer at various times in the live band and i was able to go on tour yeah bob burnquist on kazoo what's going on yeah what do you mean i didn't know spanky could play the flute but that's cool that he does i'm pretty sure spanky could pick up whatever instrument you give him but yeah no it's just you know i i come from a skateboarding background but you got to listen to the jerry sue episode of how long gone as well it's a great one is there one i thought i would have seen that yeah when you say that you were traveling a lot jason tipped me off that you might have been a you're recovering train hopper is that true yeah i'm a recovering oogle is that what it's called an oogle

People joke around if there's a trained person in the midst. If you're at a coffee shop in Seattle and you see somebody with a couple patches and a huge backpack, they might not. have a place to crash that i have some um understanding of this world just through a few a few of my friends that also chose to live off the grid in their own you know little ways who would have thought that out of between chris and i he's the one with train hopper friends but please continue because jason people don't people don't give me credit just because i'm a bitch now doesn't mean i always have been you know it's like i i you know but i would like to understand now what compels You know, dumpster diet. Getting free bagels is cool, but like you could do that at home. So why do you feel the need to see just to see America this way? Well, also, first of all, Jason, to Chris's credit, he's from the South. And that's like if you're from the South, there's like. There's a lot of train traveling around there. There's a lot of routes and tracks there. In America's heartland. The reason that I did it was a lot of this stuff, including me doing music in general, all of this stuff is pretty random, but a lot of it has to do with the fact that I ended up in Baltimore. That whole scene just has a lot of fringe, punk, small-town energy, similar to some of the towns in the South, similar to New Orleans or something. I ended up just like living in this warehouse space that, like I said, Dan and his friends used to live in when our friends took it over. And travelers would just come through all the time. And I was just at a point in my life where I was like around all these people that were, you know, either going to art school or dropping out and making art. And everyone was like, you know, at that age, when you're in your early 20s in those scenes, people are just like. What am I going to do? Who am I going to be? It was too much for me. I didn't have a long history of making things that I was excited about when I was growing up, so I just didn't really know what I wanted to do. Then when some people came through town that were...

riding the rails and doing that stuff i i was i've never even read like on the road like i didn't romanticize it at all but yeah i was just like fuck it i was more just at a point where i was like i'm not ready to do this all this like i'm not ready to try to figure out what type of fine art bullshit that i could possibly do so i just like kind of and i you know i have like a i just have a curious So I just like went with them. And, you know, it's funny because like I don't think that I was ever really I don't think I was ever really born or meant to to travel that way. But once I did travel on trains, I found immediately that it's just this type of thing where you have to constantly think about surviving and not being caught and and all these things. So it kind of if you're at a place in your life and I definitely had some like. stuff to work out and figure out what my path in life was going to be it kind of puts you in this place where there's just this like a north a north star that's what we talk about yeah like you have to just like be present you know what i mean and i really didn't know what i wanted to do at that point in my life moving forward so like i think it was just the perfect place for me to just be you know you have to sit for six hours under a bridge in eugene oregon instead of Going on the megabus up to New York to go see, like, fucking Crystal Castles. Like, you know, like, you have some time to figure out if that's really what you want to do. More than some. Oh, yeah. Did this ever feel, did it actually, now, did you encounter danger or just, you know, dogs and stuff? I mean, dogs can be dangerous. I remember one time, one time I was in Baltimore. And some of those dog stories. One time I was in Baltimore and I had just like come from some train travels, stayed the night at my friend's house. And then I was going to take another train and go south because, you know, like I it happened to be that I just got in this mode for like almost a year. And when I got on the train, I remember he gave me some weed and I smoked like a blunt when I was going down south. I was basically going trying to go to Florida from Baltimore.

And it started raining in South Carolina, and I was, like, pretty stoned. And, like, it was – depending on what train you're on, you're either inside a boxcar, but most of the time you're actually outside on, like, an exposed porch where, like, the two containers meet. And I was on one of those, and it started to rain. And so as soon as it slowed down – because, you know, there's a lot of impasses where the trains stop. um as soon as it slowed down i was like i'm i gotta get off this bitch like i'm soaked and i was stoned and i was soaked and i was walking through the woods and it was like midnight but i had no idea that like i thought maybe there was a road nearby but all of a sudden the train left and i realized that i was stoned like totally like wet. Like, and then there was, I was in the middle of the woods. So I started walking just in like a indiscriminate direction, just being like, I got to get through this. Like part of the reason I did this was because you really face a lot of your fears. And I just have just a general fear of the dark and being alone. And that's part of the reason why I traveled this way was because like, I'm somebody who's like, all right, if I really have this fear, I'm not going to spend my entire life not addressing it. But, you know, then you end up in a situation like that where you're walking for like miles through the woods. Like, what the hell am I doing? And then I finally got to a dirt road and I see at the top of the dirt road. It's it's not it's kind of like a trailer park. There's like different RVs and I'm in South Carolina, like near Florence. I've never been there. And then I just like see some. dogs at the top of this dirt row where there's one like light and they look at me and they start trotting down the hill like not too fast and i start walking the other way it's kind of like you know you know when you're like walking down the street and there's somebody who just looks like they're just like in a mean mode mood and you're just like i'm i'm not gonna be rude but i'm also gonna avert my path like that's how i was treating this pack of wild dogs and they just look like mangy mutts you know but they

There was like four to eight of them. I don't know. You hate to stereotype them, but they were mangy mutts. They were some dirt yard dogs. Let's just put it that way. And then so I actually ended up not trying to hold my composure and start running down the dirt road. And they're trotting after me. And then I see the only thing besides these trailers on this road is like a party city. But I swear to God, it's just in the middle of nowhere. Like it's not even like a real. like on like a main avenue it's just like you know like the party city warehouses where people rent like tents and shit there was just like a warehouse for that company and i ran back to the back of that and there was a couple 18 wheelers that i'm sure they like pack full of like venue equipment in carolina or whatever and i just see one of them that's empty and i like run up and jump in and just lay back in the dark and i swear to god like a looney tunes cartoon the dogs just ran by and almost all of them just ran by as as if i had my scent was still over there and they just like like i averted them but one of them stopped and turned around and just looked at me and i was just like bro this sounds like a jordan peele movie staring at it in the face and then i think i had like a moment with that dog where the dog was like this bitch ain't worth it and then he just kept he went back up to the pack and was like no i didn't see anything wow that was a really that year was a really transformative experience for me and it was actually extremely beneficial towards me not taking like my art career too seriously and just recognizing like the transience in things so it's like a really cathartic beautiful experience to me but what it ends up amounting to is just people like you like when i meet them being like what the fuck you so so you're a so you're a cross punk or what i'm glad it's cathartic to you but i mean you know i saw your crass butt flap and your fucking boots and i i all i could do is ask these questions but also i mean when you're when you're like on that train and you've been just on some rickety rainy

cargo train and then the sun starts coming up and you're you know you're looking at Mount Shasta or Appalachia or the Grand Canyon or some shit and you you get to see the world in a way that nobody else gets to see it and that's probably a pretty unique feeling right I mean just just for one little tidbit it's like when you go on the cross-country route that I take which is from like Baltimore New York area to Chicago and then from from Minneapolis to Seattle. Standard routing. I think Snail Mill's doing that right now, too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, no, it's ground control touring puts people on that. But anyways, when you go from some of these routes, like Minneapolis to Seattle, there's periods in the middle. It's like a two-day ride when you get on that train. There's periods where the highway is like 100 miles away and the... The tracks that you're on are only freight tracks. Amtracks don't go in them. So there are some moments, like you could imagine, where it's like these are areas of Montana that I could never see unless I was flying a plane. Beyond remote. There are some places that these trains go that are so... obscure in terms of like the landscape that it is really cool the reason that i did it was actually you know it's it's it's not that hard to imagine it's like i just kind of was at a place where i was like really not sure and i was kind of lost in my life and it just kind of gave me some purpose and um but the cool thing is is that like it gives you a lot of confidence like i said because you you're like hey if i can if i can get from around the whole country like three or four times in a row with zero dollars like i think i can probably uh play a show at shea stadium you know so my follow-up question for this is how good at shoplifting were you i was pretty good i i had like it was kind of like a

Go into Whole Foods, grab, like, two of their reusable bags and just kind of... Fill them up. You know, abuse your privilege kind of method. But that got shut down pretty quickly when I was trying to take a tent from REI when I was, like, 20 in... Which I didn't realize was the REI headquarters in, like, Portland or something. Yeah, been there. Been there. No sales tax. You have, yeah. Yeah, no. And I got tackled by some homie. Some burly ass homie. Yeah, I haven't stolen anything since. But one thing that I was going to mention to you guys is that I do love a good hack or a scam. Like, because, you know, when people get caught stealing, they're younger, they kind of like, they're like, all right, I'm not going down this route. But then when you see like an opening, like if you're somebody who, you know, I'm like, luckily now I'm like. i'm financially stable big shouts to all the algorithm listeners out there like now i'm doing pretty well but you can't take you still you still gotta steal some shit yeah it's a control it's a control thing you gotta take some shit sometimes you still got that dog in oh i got the dog in me but i really like you know you know those moments where you're like oh my god this is an opportunity where it's like a victimless crime and like even though i have the money to do something like this or whatever it is, you're just like, nobody knows what's going on. I'm going to take this. Like that's, that's, that's like what train riding kind of put into me. Cause you're constantly just like in this Peter Pan mode of like trying to just like, you know, you're basically taking a free ride wherever you go. So, you know, it, that stayed in me. And like the funniest thing happened during the pandemic because it was like early 2020 and I had just. Like I had a car that was dying. It was like an old RAV4. And I did like the I did the very obvious thing for someone who makes derivative 70s rock in Los Angeles. And I got like a diesel Mercedes just because I always thought they were super cool, you know. But I got one and I was like, holy shit, you have to fucking find diesel pumps. Like, I'm not I'm not ready for this.

I'm trying to figure this out. Simultaneously, I have this person named Sasha, my best friend, who's in the other room right now, who I live with, who has been making music with me since basically the first year I started making music. And we've been making music for like 14 years, and we live together still. But at the time, being in the pandemic, I lived in this house that I'm in alone, and I hadn't spoken to Sasha for maybe like eight years. months because sasha was living on this farm in altadena where there was no service like on some like we i didn't know where my best friend was this is the pandemic um but trying to get in touch with them for like a long time about some like music stuff that we needed to talk about but like just calling them once a week and just like dead no service so anyways I swear this story is going somewhere good. So I pay $5 at this diesel pump that I find because I just got in this car. And I'm like, damn, this car is going to be really expensive. This diesel is expensive. This car is really bad on gas. So I pay like $5 at this gas station in Alhambra because I was out there going to get dumplings. And I was like, Jesus Christ, this is expensive. I'm just putting down a little bit of money here. and then going to fill it up somewhere else and so i give them five dollars and then on the way back to the pump before i'm able to pump it like with my prepaid money sasha calls me out of the blue for the first time in like six months or something so i immediately take the call i'm like homie what the fuck like where have you been like we have to there's did you see this email like months ago like we have to say yes this there we don't like how are you blah blah so we have this whole long conversation When I get back to the pump, it's been like 40 minutes, and I see that the $5 prepay, which is an embarrassing little tidbit in the first place. That's where my head was going personally, but I'm glad that you addressed that. We've all been there. We haven't, but go ahead. But anyways, it's like canceled. It's like glitched out. It says like time expired, like code 406. I'm like, what the fuck did I do? I was like this cheap and this stupid.

like talking for 40 minutes before pumping it, that it's gone. I'm going to have to go back in there and ask them to put $5 back again with my tail between my legs. And I was like, no, I can't. I got to try this. So I tried to pump it and it worked, but it was coming out kind of at like half speed. Nothing ever happened on the dial and it never stopped. And all of a sudden it was like overfilled my pump, my tank. So I was like, what the hell? is going on. And then I went home and the whole way home, I was like, okay, how did this work? What did I do? Blah, blah, blah. I live in a house with a bunch of our friends live in the front house. Everyone's like chilling, drinking beers. And I'm like, no, no, no. Hold on guys. I got to figure something out. Like I went here, I did this, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I think this pump is broken. And they're like, there's no fucking way this pump is broken. It was just a one-time fluke, blah, blah, blah. So then the next day I, like, drive to Malibu. I'm like, we got to run these miles up. I got to empty my tank. And then I just go to Alhambra. Malibu and Alhambra. Wow. I got to empty it somehow. I got to run these miles up. I got to run these miles up. Exactly. And then I get there. I show up. I give the person $2. I'm like, here. Here's $2 on pump number three. And then I go back there. And I set a timer and I wait. And like I'm listening to a podcast, not yours yet. Hadn't heard about it. Hadn't existed yet. But listening to a podcast and nine minutes later, the pump is like glitched, blah, blah, blah. I try to pump it. The same thing happens. I did this exclusively for 13 months. So basically I had. This reminds me of like when you're a kid and you find out about that one Mortal Kombat machine that like if you kick it the right way, you'll get a free game kind of thing. Exactly. Except it's thousands of dollars worth of diesel fuel. But you could imagine, Jason, if you found out about this, how pumped you would be going to tell your friends about this little. Yeah, exactly. But the funny thing is, is that at this point, gas in the pandemic, this was like this happened from like 2020.

to like 2021 you know and this point gas wasn't peaked like it was and like my friends always joke now they're like it's because you fucking stole that gas that everything's so expensive now it has nothing to do with saudi arabia it's all it's all drug dealer i think i ran up like close to like 7 000 my manager he also had a diesel car he was the only other person i know that has a diesel car and i was like dude you have to do it he's like fuck no they're literally just watching you until you hit 10k then it's like grand larceny and then like these people at this fucking arco are gonna like sting you with like the atf or something because i i'm not like a thief like i'm not somebody who like like if i find like a wallet like i'll like go find the person and give it back to them but if like if the gas like gas is that one thing where i'm like everyone should be able to you know pull one over on these fuck like it's it's such an egregious crime that we even are in a system where we're all forced to use it to some extent and well i don't know if you checked out the all new tesla but there are ways around it yeah yeah i might get like a maybe after this tour i'll get like a rivian but um that'd be cool if you had if you had if you had a rivian but a roommate that'd be very cool yeah no no that's the whole isn't that their that's their tagline right like Not ready to live on your own, but... Rivian. It costs $90,000, so get a roommate. But yeah, no, no. Any little things like that are fun. But the funny thing about me is that I think because of the background that I've had and that type of traveling, it's like I'm somebody who will totally get juiced and exploit if I find a loophole like that. There's different ways that I like to be very frugal because it's like... You don't have to waste your money. But then also, at the same time, I'm somebody that, because of that same background, if I hear that something fun is happening across the country tomorrow, I'll spend an exorbitant amount of money for an experience, too. I just like to spend my money for things that are enriching and not just fossil fuels.

By no means am I cheap. It's just, like, you know, it's, like, I just pick and choose it. And, like, I love to eat, and I love food, and it's, like, I'm not, like, I don't care what the bill is if the cuisine is, like, hitting right. Okay. Oh, this man said cuisine. Now you got TJ on Chubb. Lean cuisine. Lean cuisine. Lean cuisine. We don't check the price tags at Noma. We don't check price tags. I don't check price tags on food either, but I'm almost always disappointed in it. But I'm happy to pay because someone did prepare that for me. No, absolutely. So I recognize that. No, I've listened to the podcast. You know, Chris, I actually have a question for you. Being somebody – you said you've talked recently about being somebody who doesn't drink, right? And then you go out with a lot of people that probably have expensive tastes in wine and stuff. And when you finish the meal, you are like – You're party to that bill. Some of these meals are like, the wine has got to be, what, two-thirds of the bill, right? That's right. Does that ever trip you out post-sobriety? It's weird because it really doesn't. I really don't care. But Chris is the only person that doesn't seem to care. Or he has figured out a way to make peace with this thing. Because also for Chris, he would rather pay an extra $178 every time him and I eat dinner. for my for my alcohol addiction yeah then you know then pull out a calculator and figure out what the percentage is yeah and also there's nothing worse in this world to me than being cheap and if anybody could ever possibly see me in that light it would crush me to the point of i i i would i just that's my that's my absolute nemesis that's why all these i get it apps kill me like all these splitting apps and venma all this shit it's just it's it's too much no i'm totally with you i think that like when people if you're see that's that's the thing that i'm saying like if you're with friends and you're having like a great time with your best friends there's no there's no price tag that would

should make anyone if they have the means you know worry about it you know it's just it's just these little like we don't hang out with any we don't hang out with any brokies on this side so we're usually in a good in a good way but yeah i mean i've definitely paid for some um you know 25 cocktails and 300 bottles of wine in my time and it's something that i have I don't know, Jason, are there other people that you hang out with that are going to be like, hey, I didn't drink, so we're going to need to split it? Do people actually do that? When I was younger, I feel like I would hear that a lot more, but yeah, I think nowadays it's just kind of like, eh, I don't care. I think the other thing is that there's some times where people will demand that I don't pay for it, and I'm not going to argue with you. I'm not going to like... force you to let me pay but i'm never going to be the one to introduce that concept at the end of the meal yeah yeah chris chris don't you don't put don't pay the tip don't pay it we got this brother man they love saying chris you don't pay the tip they love that these wine these winos in la like they like they like to run it up you know and like these winos in la absolutely run up a check bro oh 100 and there's so are you sort of anti-wine or you're just that pro tequila no i'm pro tequila and my parents just like my parents love wine and it just was something growing up where i was like you know i just wanted to like be able to steal a beer from like my parents and i was always just like what is this shit you know just like what uh what's your tequila of choice 818 casamigos uh what are we what are we looking at i like i like mezcal a lot but even when i'm in mexico city i'm just like i'm not like Oh, do you have anything from the... You're just like, what's good? I'll take it. All the shit you have is good. You just tell me what's good. Okay, and when you do Mezcal, are we doing it straight, room temp, out of a gourd? What's going on? How legit are we going? That's how you're supposed to do it, right? I mean, I've been going there a lot over the last 10 years because my manager, McGregor, used to live there for like seven years, so I would go visit him a few times a year. And yeah, that's...

that's how they do it when i first got to mexico city when you first moved there i got off the plane i was like i met him at this like karaoke bar he was with his friends who are from there and they were like welcome to mexico and they handed me this like i guess it was just like a little sipping glass of mezcal but i had never really had mezcal this was like 10 years ago or something like that don't tell me you shot it and i thought it was just like a nice double shot of like tequila and i was like fuck it like i just got here and it's like you don't know when you get to mexico city for the first time that it's so elevated you know and like you haven't acclimated yet so i like got out of the uber plopped my like suitcase down at this like outdoor patio bar was like salute and then shot it and they all their faces just went white you know it's that shit will rock you if you drink it that way so the way that i drink mezcal now is like you know it's it's the best because you have to just like really you have to just like touch it to your lips you know like it's it's it's a really cool i mean you i'm sure you like it i think you've heard yeah i like a little mezcal yeah i mean i think the best time to have it is just like you you and your friends have a bottle you're in the backyard you know telling stories smoking cigarettes and slowly getting you know super fucked up but in a very warm and fun kind of inviting way right fun and inviting way i like the way you put that yeah all right actually lastly On this podcast, I don't know if you're familiar with this part about it, but are you familiar with Sync Talk? Yeah, the synchronization thing that you guys do. Yeah, no, it's hilarious. It's funny because I feel like a lot of the stuff that we've gotten... has been pretty chill since I've started making music. Chill meaning doesn't pay very much or chill as in it was an easy, smooth transaction? I mean, things have paid well, but nothing's come up that's been egregiously against some type of moral stance, high ground. But the funny thing is that a lot of people that get those things, I think that's why...

You like to ask these questions because it's funny when people say no. I'm just like, if anything ever like we're living in a point that's like past selling out, you know, and like if you're somebody who's a cool person and you are and you you're authentic about the way that you make art, nobody fucking cares when you get the bag, you know. So it's like if I was ever to get Carl's Jr. or like fucking Rivian or whatever the fuck it is, I would just be like. run it up i'd be like what's up everybody rivian gave me the bag be like a monster sponsored skateboarder like a monster sponsored skater that that sums it up quite well that is good we're gonna be the niger houstons of whatever the fuck a lot of the stuff that we've got the things that we get are like you know it'll be like that zoe kravitz show high fidelity it'll be something where it's like nobody would really bat an eye at but like the more evil the better like we're we're As cheap as you think I am, Chris, I'm in this money ball game too. No, no, no. I don't think you're cheap. I think you're recovering, which is nice to see. I know you're kind of doing the steps and kind of doing the work. It's been a dynamic journey, yeah. I'm in a 12-step program for people that used to be in DIY noise communities. We basically meet up and we hold hands and we talk about... normal things that we did today you know and it's going pretty well it's been 12 12 years since i've been a broco yeah thank you guys i love to see i love to see you developing thank you for joining us drug dealer how long gone um when's the new album out i think it comes out october 28th and then we go on tour starting halloween okay i uh i tweeted out one of the songs the the new song with kate i saw that i really great song but people really responded to that people are really fucking with that song yeah that's really cool it was uh you know I got a publishing deal this year that I'm really excited about with Secretly. And that was the first. Our family over there at Secretly. I know. I heard. I spoke with them about you guys. But that was the first artist that they sent me to, you know, basically do a writing session to write for. Yeah. And I was like, I went to, I was on the East Coast. I went to Richmond. I met Kate. I was like, you know.

this girl's great like she felt like a sister to me immediately we got drunk the whole night and then the next morning uh i wrote this song a bit basically trying to write a song for her but the only problem was that the shit banged too hard and i was like we have to we're gonna bring that back over sorry bro it's mine now but you're you're you're you're singing i'll put you on a feature i'll give you a little feature but we can't i can't just give the whole shit away you know what i mean it's just not the no but it just it was too good like i was like uh i'm not i can't be the ghostwriter on this when uh when you went to richmond to record that how uh how exactly did you get there you did your research didn't you jason It was the first time that I fucking it was the first time I hopped a train in the whole pandemic. It was just a little it was a little it was just a little relapse. You had to get a taste, didn't you? Yeah, I was visiting my parents in Maine and McGregor was like, you know, the secretly email came in. Is there some way you could maybe take a flight down to Richmond before? And I was like, I got a better idea. I was like, I'm actually going to go down south before I go back to L.A. And my mom was like, oh, what are you going to do? And I was like, I'm just going to rent a car. And then I did rent a car, and I drove it to Baltimore. And then my mom was, like, calling me. She was like, are you driving? You're driving, right? And I was like, for sure. She, like, she just hates the fact that I. Your mom doesn't like it when you illegally ride freight trains across the country? But the funny thing was is that I've taken this route a million times. So I was like, whatever. Like, you know, the pandemic was long and confusing. Like, maybe I'll just, like. Maybe I'll take a quick little hit of this life again. And then I get on the train in Baltimore. I'm pulling out. I've done it literally like I've done this dozens of times on this train. But I hadn't done this in like, honestly, I haven't gone south on the East Coast in like eight years. And I'll tell you, anyone that's listening, all you Oogles out there, shit is different. Because the train pulled out, military style.

drone as i was pulling out just stuck onto me you know glommed onto me right over me and then flew off and then the train took off but when i got to richmond you know that those those boys in the suburbans were waiting and i actually and the whole the whole all the train yards have way more security and like the game has changed i think that the game has changed and i I would like to report that I played cat and mouse with them for 40 minutes in that yard, and then I just walked out and greeted them and took my ticket. But the funny thing was is that when they were like, you're fucking old. Like, what the fuck are you doing here? They're like, you're wearing a suit jacket. You don't have a backpack. Why are you? You appear to have more money than I do, young man. I was like, listen up. Listen up. Just give me the ticket. I'm all good. And they were like, but why are you in Richmond? I'm like, look. i'm here doing this music thing they're like so are you like do you have a ukulele are you gonna go to the side of the street i'm like no have you ever heard of this thing it's like a like so i so i have like a publishing deal and there's this girl here who's like a lot younger and she's like she's she's doing pretty well her voice is pretty good and the dudes are just like you know what get the fuck out of here i'm not hearing about this fucking shit I don't associate with top line riders. Get the fuck out of here. Are you familiar with the secretly group guys? I can kind of explain the structure to you if you want, but it might take a while. One of the guys is like, yeah, actually, you know, my brother's on dead ocean. Welcome to town. It was hilarious. Where is your ukulele is good. They gave me a ticket. And then I was like, they were like, all right, here's your punishment. Five miles down the road is the nearest gas station. And then I like went over to the, cause you know, I used to. When I used to ride trains, it was before I had any success. And I was just like, they'd be right. They'd be sending me packing. But I just went to 100 yards away from them and called like an Uber XL. And this dude rolled up. This dude straight up rolled up, banging Aaliyah. Like a dude with dreads, just banging Aaliyah. And I got, it was like an SUV, like an Expedition or something. And I just opened the door.

And I gave them a big peace sign, and they were like. You ruined their day. God damn it. That's really funny. All right, Michael. Thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. Yeah, I'd love to meet you guys. I'm a big fan. I think what you guys are doing is really good for the community of people that, you know, are just trying to keep exercising. get through their day thank you that's what we do here learn about some cool shit we'll come see you play i'd love to check out the show we'll hit you yeah yeah love to see you guys we appreciate it all right see you jason bye