600. - Sam Fragoso

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Coming to you live from the Villa, Copenhagen. Jason, how are you? Oh, the villa. Is that a better hotel than we stayed at last time? Much. Yeah, yeah, much. Much, yeah. People are like, oh, you stay in there? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm not. Okay, good. But, yeah, so I'm here. It is a hotbed of Scandinavian influencers. So the lobby, which is beautiful, looks kind of like a backstage area. And these chicks come out. 7 a.m. full hair, makeup, blowout, look, look on, ready to create content. And I have to say, it's kind of inspiring. What exactly has it inspired you to do when you see these Nordic models walking around? What has it inspired you to do? First of all, I want to be very clear. They're not models. Other than Beat Your Shit, and Beat is spelled B-A-E-T. No. No, no. I do love a nice beet and a salad. No, I just mean the commitment to a look. I just don't have that in me. I'm going to put on some jeans and a t-shirt. Obviously, it's the way they make money, so it's different. But just the fact that they have used a curling iron, a blow dryer, and a straightener.

before the sun is up just feels crazy unless you're kathy lee gifford on morning tv you know what i mean i agree with that but you know this is sort of their version of you know like the forklift operator or the ditch digger like hey man i i've been up you know moving pallets with this truck since since sun up it's the same kind of vibe right it's definitely except one of them has better food Actually, one of them has no food. Depending on who you're talking to, that could be better. But no, it's been, the weather's actually been pretty, it's chilly, but it's not raining. So that's a victory. Okay, good. Have you been eating some bread and butter and a little bit of cheese for breakfast? I actually, I had that for lunch today. I tried to resist, but it's just too good, man. It's too good. I think it's unavoidable. It really is when in Rome do as the Romans do. And when you are in Copenhagen, you really do have to just eat. buttered cheese bread it's breakfast every morning because everyone else there does that every single morning and their obesity rate and obesity is also spelled in a fun way well it's funny you say that because i was talking to My buddy Daniel, who has this brand called Another Aspect, and I was talking to him today, I'm like, yeah, I fucking had one of those things. I had the bun and cheese and butter today. I'm like, you motherfuckers have those every day. And he was like, no, not every day. He wanted to make it clear that maybe the sheen has worn off if you grew up here, which I think makes sense. Got it. Okay, that makes sense. But yeah, man. Well, speaking of food, I just wanted to plug, I have a new food writing piece that you guys should go read. I wrote a review of horses. And you should go read it. It's on tastecooking.com is the website. There's some cool animated artwork that was created. And, you know, everyone go read it. Give it a share. Like and subscribe, et cetera, et cetera. Like and subscribe, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, the artwork is really something. I feel like it really, it's reaching. How to get the Cybertruck in there, you know what I'm saying? New heights. I wanted to ask you if you've kind of looked into having one of these transmitters put in your brain. Like, you know, Elon just did it. A Neuralink. A Neuralink. Are you, I mean, you're a Tesla household.

It doesn't seem far off from something that you might be interested in, if it was offered to you free of charge, of course. Well, I think that's what I wonder about it because it sort of has a little bit of the vibe when you would see, maybe more so back in the day, not so much nowadays, where people who may be down on their luck financially could... There's the donating blood. There's the donating semen. But then there would be other people who would be like, you can test your experimental drugs on my useless body. If it works, great. If I die, then not a huge loss for society. It kind of has that vibe. Is Elon giving bans to people who are potentially... killing themselves oh i don't think or are people lining up to volunteer i was gonna 100 i was gonna say i think the elon devotees are lining up and giving their body away to his flawed science is my my guess but do but do they know that i mean because he's sort of talked about it himself he's not saying like i invented this shit it works perfectly it's sick as hell we're gonna start doing it he's been a little like you know there will be some you know break a couple eggs to make an omelet kind of thing we're gonna have to test it out like he knows that like motherfuckers are gonna die and he's okay with that but are there people out there who are like kind of like a kamikaze suicide mission like please elon take my body in the name of science i'm gonna be a hero yeah i mean if if i bought if i ever wore a spacex hoodie then maybe i'm willing to die for elon's new experiment is the feeling i'm getting i'm gonna need compensation that's all i'm saying i mean i don't think there's any i think it's going i think you get free surgery you know what i mean it's like if dr miami gets you to a sponsored post there ain't no money exchange you just get the free surgery And I think that that might be enough for – I think that could be enough. You should be so lucky. I think that could be enough for some people. I really do. I really do. It's really blowing my mind, though, because I think that, like, the car is one thing. Because, you know, he let people die with the car. You know, he was like, yeah, we're going to have to break some eggs to make this omelet. Yeah, but that's every car, though, you know? Yeah, but not one – it's different when it drives itself.

It's very different. Because it feels like if I die because the airbag malfunctions, I caused the wreck at least. You just fucked up on the airbag. Right, right, right. I was the one who was drinking and driving. Exactly. Now it's everybody's fault. No, that's true. I don't know. It's a real revolution, though. You're not going to be back in time for the Grammys this year, are you? No, unfortunately I'm not. No, unfortunately I'm not. I, hopefully I'll be able to, I mean, there's no way I'll be able to watch it even because I can't stay up that late with the time difference. Oh, right, right. Damn, that sucks. Is this going to be your first international Grammy snub? I feel like I've missed something before, but maybe not the Grammy is my favorite of all of these since I don't watch film or television. I mean, I'll watch. Those are your favorites. It's my favorites. And I can't wait to see her perform for the 14th year in a row. No one knows the songs. Her and the Foo Fighters are going to get up there and tear down the stage. That's just a guess. That's merely a guess. I saw that Joni Mitchell is performing. It's going to be a real fucking hootenanny. I love Joni Mitchell, but Joni Mitchell is 126 years old. You know what I mean? I don't know how... Oh, you know, in other music news, I've been getting some texts about something that I think is very interesting, Jason. And one of those texts was from you. Jesse Lacey, who's most famous for the band The Neighborhood, and they have like a giant hit song called Sweater Weather, which I've heard, but I thought it would, for the amount of plays it has, I thought I'd know every word kind of situation. But he showed up in San Fernando Valley. on the bill one of six with a new hardcore band called valley i think it's valley girls valley girls and people didn't know i guess i guess there had been rumors and there was like a demo that came out and no one knew who was in the band and then he showed up and the hardcore community is up in arms yeah and what i said to you is like first of all this guy is this you don't get into hardcore at 36

You just don't. This guy's definitely been listening to hardcore for a long time. He's got hand tattoos, for Christ's sakes. But I'm sure it's led to some funny jokes, and luckily he's very rich, so I'm sure those roll right off his back. I think Machine Gun Kelly might get into hardcore when he turns 36. I mean, if anyone would, it could be him. But I think he thinks Blink-182 is hardcore. I think he's already hit the level for him. They're badass. I love all the reporting on it, though. I googled it after a few people sent it to me and like there's a stereo gum post about it and I'm like damn this is crazy that this hardcore show in a fucking VFW hall in the valley for 150 people is making national hardcore news. Yeah I guess it makes me proud as a hardcore old to see us having a global impact and mothering on various hardcore blogs but I don't know. Like I was telling you before, my barbershop, they're all friends with the people who do that venue. And they all go there all the time and go to shows and stuff. So it's going to be like when LeBron walks into the barbershop. When I go in there tomorrow, I'll be like, oh, I know y'all seen this video. And they're going to be like, hell yeah, fool. Oh, buddy. And everyone's going to be like, you know, that one gay fool that was playing that. turnstile shit nah fool it's gonna be like that that's gonna be good for you i mean this is i love that your barbershop talk revolves around a hardcore band versus kind of like you know versus like conor mcgregor this weekend yeah it's just hey y'all watching the fight or uh my barbershop talks about watches gay shit and like hate breed i got a haircut today in copenhagen from They felt Armenian culturally, to be honest with you. Could have been Turkish maybe over there. Yeah, maybe Turkish. But I didn't have any. It was cash only, and I didn't have any cash because this is a city where nothing is cash only. So a city. I felt embarrassed, and then they were like, no, get the haircut, and then you can go get cash. And I was like, is this a trick? Like, are these guys going to kidnap me for $300? Not $300, but whatever.

For 50 Danish kroner? And they did allow me. They gave me the haircut and then trusted me to come back and pay them. And that's the Danish difference. Try that in a small town. Try that in a big town. That would never. In New York City, they'd be like, nah, leave your phone. Leave your wallet. Leave your keys. Leave your daughter. Leave your baby. Leave your... Leave your black Air Force wives. Yeah, please. If you don't leave the A1s, we can't trust you to kind of go out and hit the ATM. There's a TV show that I feel like I want you to watch. It's called In the Know. It's the guy, Mike Judge, who did Silicon Valley and Beavis and Butthead and a bunch of other stuff. Oh, you know I'm a big Beavis and Butthead guy. Okay, good. And it's sort of a parody on NPR culture. I think it's a little heavy-handed in satirizing it. It gets a little exhausting, but it is funny and well done. It's sort of like a day in the life of a local NPR kind of affiliate station where an Ira Glass guy thinks he's God. Wait, hold on. Is it animated? And it's all animated, yeah, which I know you're not going to like. That's tough, bro. But it's done well, and it looks really good. It's not cartoony. It's sort of like photorealistic. but it's probably computer-generated. It looks cool, though. I'll check out your little program. It's not my little program. To me, it's not bingeable because it requires a lot, and it's a little heavy-handed, but it's funny. Which streamer is presenting this? Oh, babe, it's on Peacock. You got a login, or what's really good? I actually do have a login. Okay, I'm thinking about it. Hold on. I noticed, okay, we have a guest today, Sam Fergozo. You know him. from his very popular podcast, Talk Easy. But I'm just looking now. He was a guest on Solicited Advice with Alison Roman. And you know who hasn't been on that, Jason? Me or you. I find that very interesting. That makes perfect sense to me. I don't really see any situation where Alison Roman would want us to be on her podcast where we could risk fucking up her money. You know what I mean?

She's got a lot of tin fish to sell upstate, and we are not helping her with that. That's true. That's true. Okay. All right. Well, let's get... We're only going to create toxic Apple podcast comments. We're going to get her a lot more one stars than she had before. That's true. She doesn't need us. I was just... My feelings were hurt. All right. That's fine. Let's give Sam a jingle. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone... It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down.

The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Okay, so Sam. Obviously, you have a similar sort of mid-level podcast to us. You guys, you have much bigger guests, but every time I go to a cool exclusive celebrity party, you are the only other mid-level podcaster there. So I think we should use this hour. as fellow star fuckers to sort of share our strategies and help grow stronger together what do you think i i mean that's that's why i said yes to coming on obviously what a good description because we we both get to the same place with two very different methods do we get to the same place i feel like you guys go other places well i mean not every single time but every time i go to a party where i'm like damn My big ass should not be in this room. Oh, you mean parties. I thought you meant inside the interview. Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about the interview. We never go to any similar place during the interview. We don't care about the interview. That's not what we're worried about. Yeah, you talk to fucking Tom Hanks and Willem Dafoe, and I'm talking about a pasta that has a slur in it. But I'm talking about when we go to parties, and I'm at a cool, hip party. Everyone's wearing tuxedos and shit.

I feel out of place. And then you always walk in fashionably late, and you know every single person there. Chris, you look very good in a tuxedo. I mean, Jason, you do too. But I saw, I was like, God, I really, I need to get something like that. I'm not quite there. I'm on a podcast budget. I don't own any tuxedos. Those tuxedos are loaned to me by my dear family at Tom Brown. Thank you guys so much for that. Owning a tuxedo is a part of, I believe, being a man. I think maybe at 41, this is the first time in my life where I might get my money back on it. You know what I mean? I could wear this three times a year. I know what you're saying. I'm still a boy. Yeah, I get it. No, I think you could do it. I think we can all get a free tuxedo somehow, someway with our smooth voices. Can Will Welch help us out or something? Yeah, he'll get you a tuxedo. It's going to be snakeskin, though, so I hope you're okay with that. It's not going to be something you can wear to a funeral. It's Crumheart snakeskin. I mean, he looks good in it. I don't know how it would look on you. And speaking of us wearing... suits and tuxedos somebody just yesterday sent me an instagram message saying that segue with with the most utmost respect you look like the the rat in 2006 animated film flushed away are you familiar with that film sam not at all well what is that it's a 2006 animated adventure comedy film directed by sam fell and david bowers blah blah blah blah it's about An uptown rat that gets flushed down the toilet from his penthouse apartment and ends up in the sewers of London where he has to learn a whole new different way of life. So it's like a rat. I look like a tall. It's like a rat down and out. I got it. Yeah. Okay. It's a rats to riches tale. Or Riches to Rat's Tale. Great stuff. Yeah, you like that shit. They should re-release it with that tagline. That's great. I've never heard of this. I had never heard of Flushed Away until just yesterday, and I was at first insulted when somebody says every time you dress up nicely in a suit, you look like an animated rat. But I saw the animated rat, slender, tall, kind of characteristically handsome, good looks for a rat.

I take it as a compliment. Not to deviate too far from the rat, but at these parties, I've been curious because sometimes I'll listen to the show and in the beginning, the two of you will do your post-party analysis. The analysis you would do on the ride home with your friend if you were going to the same location in L.A., which you never are. We go to Swingers afterwards and get a tuna melt. Did you see Natasha Lyonne? When the sun's rising. Which one is Vince Vaughn? Yeah, good question. Great question. I do feel like you guys have – the two of you go, but the return or the analysis often feels like two people that are like, unwilling participants like you guys go but you like you have a lot of complaints yeah you're not really sure why you went yeah i know why i know why i went and i complain about everything so it doesn't matter good bad nice well we go because we get paid to complain about it and nobody wants to be like hey man i went to this a-list party how was it it was cool there was free champagne and i met a lot of celebrities okay what do you want to talk about next You got to talk about the bad shit. I'd love to hear who gets strays. in those opening hey look hey look opening bits do you have any examples of your favorite stray i i heard chris giving some some quinta brunson hate that i didn't love uh no no i actually know that's actually not true i'm a quinta do you remember what he said about our queen mother i'm a quinta fan for the record okay i don't know it was from the w magazine party now everyone listening to this like these people man no i mean i i'm a i'm a quinta i'm here i'm here to defend quinta i'm a my My wife watches Abbott Elementary. Not so much for me, but you know. Quince is cool. She's one of my favorite 4'11 mothers. She is small. You think that's funny, Sam? Not cool. Honesty is not a stray, Sam. Honesty is honesty, and that's kind of, you know, I understand where there could be some confusion. Right, right. That's kind of your brand. But yeah, but honestly, I did want a real answer to my sort of joke question where Chris and I have sort of...

We've elbowed our way into this world through a few connections and here and there, and people want to invite us to these events because they like the way that we talk about them in a frank manner. But you, as a sort of sweetie pie who knows everyone and comes in and doesn't have a bad thing to say about anyone. Is that sort of your method of gaining access to these worlds where we don't deserve to be in? I would say – I'm trying to give – do I give a serious answer to a silly question? Yes, you do. That's the whole point. Yes, of course, and I will. One, I have – plenty of bad things to say what are we talking about okay i try to i try to not say i'm on mic who gets to hear those things sam like you you guys if you we can go get i know chris doesn't drink but we can go get a drink and we'll do it but i don't i actually don't have any like i mean i'm 29 like i don't really i don't come from this world my dad's like a teacher from chicago my mom was a lawyer in chicago like i didn't come from this so it was I started as a film critic. You got it out the mud. Yeah, I don't know. You started as a film critic, you said? Yeah, back in the day. Where was this criticism available to read? Unfortunately, in way too many places. That is still available now. I see. Your team hasn't scrubbed it yet? Yeah, UTA hasn't figured that out. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know how it all happened, but I think maybe, parties are kind of like, the more you go, the more you're invited. And if you don't leave your house, then you don't really know what's happening. But I think you two actually get invited. I'm kind of like the, oh, he's good to bring along. So you're a plus one. I'm not always a plus one, but I say like 50-50 I'm a plus one. In our defense, Jason and I also come from a more party-centric background. You guys know all those people. Than film criticism, I would say. You don't know Roger Ebert and Cannes? Are you kidding? But whenever I go to a W Magazine party filled with actors, there's only one fellow nightlife DJ, and it's the guy who's DJing. And it's you.

And then half the room are actors that you've already interviewed before. So you belong more so, perhaps. Or people who I haven't, and then I get propositioned. Oh, really? Sexually or to interview them? I mean, the latter would have been great. Like, why haven't you interviewed me yet, dumbass? I'm more famous than Sarah Silverman or Rami Youssef. Not Jason looking at the website. On the podcast right now. I have a better voice than Arlo Parks. Why haven't you talked to me yet? Oh, not Arlo Parks. Jesus. Well, okay, look. I think that maybe it's because the show is becoming a rite of passage. And if you're not on that list as an actor, no matter how many accolades you have, you feel a little left out from the inner circle. You two must have so many people that you're buddies with that go like, all right. When's it happening? That must happen all the time. Just Emil. Emil's the only one, really. If it's someone that we're legitimately friends with and they have something going on, something coming out, no one's just being like, come on, dude, please. No one does that. But also, our podcast is a little bit more of a potential minefield in terms of saying something that they might regret. on the record oh yeah whereas when you have kumail over you're not gonna like make fun of his hgh addiction or anything um i i didn't and i don't know about that but um of course i i got you're not gonna tell judd apatow to stop doing stand-up it's funny because i know exactly where he is on the website because those episodes are right next to each other in the archive i know i know you're not gonna tell nick kroll how'd you get your wife for you stuff like that I play basketball with him, so actually I have asked that question. I love Nick Kroll. Yeah, one of the greats. By the way, I received hours of media training before coming here today, so I'm ready to go. Well, that sort of is an interesting thing about it, where we do have sort of those different aspects of coming into it. And I think that the interesting part about...

The way we pod and the way you pod is we do no research before a guest appears on our show. And one could argue you might do too much. And I think the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. So exactly, have you ever done an interview or a podcast just with no safety net, just like going into it? I like that the person who hasn't done research is like – I think the person that has has done too much. I agree. That's a crazy stray you just caught. I wouldn't say that. I think it's just a different style. That's all. Yeah. Look, I love what you guys do. But I'm just not – one, there's two of you. Yeah, that's a very good point. If I had my own Chris Black alongside – Maybe I would go in less prepared. Sam, make me an offer I can't refuse, sweetheart. There's no wrong way to get there. It's just two different methods. One way is not the right or wrong way. Talk house has a stranglehold on you, Chris. We know that. It's like we're cooking and you're baking. You know what I mean? We're able to be a little more free-flowing, whereas you have to sort of measure things down to the gram, which is a thing that I respect and I enjoy. I don't think so. I mean, that actually is a good analogy, but I like cooking and I don't like baking, so I can't go with it. Interesting. So you're feeling offended. No, no. I do a lot of research. It's true. And honestly, it's because I'm just, I don't know. I think there's so many fucking podcasts that my feeling is I don't want to waste people's time. And I want the tape to have some kind of story to it. And I want there to be some kind of three-act structure. And that's just how I like to do interviews. But as someone who likes How Long Gone, this is great, too. Like, there's just different kinds. It's different. You know, it's just liking Curb Your Enthusiasm and liking Sopranos. It doesn't mean I can't actually. Those are both. So you're the Sopranos? Interesting. I mean, Sopranos is really funny, too, so I don't know. It's actually low-key super funny. People don't talk about it. I mean, let's say it's like.

It's like enjoying Joe Rogan or Ira Glass, you know? You're the Joe Rogan, right? Yeah, definitely. Act one. In this case, I would rather be Joe Rogan than Ira Glass. If a gun to my head, at least Joe Rogan can swing a kettlebell. You're making it sound like the show is like, act one, the male Nanjiani works out a lot. Act two, he stars in Marvel. This was sort of a long-winded way for me to get you to say. Act one in the Ira Glass voice. So thank you for getting clean tape of that. But like if Kumail came on How Long Gone, it would be an hour of working out only. That's all I want to talk about because I think it's so wild the way that he has done that. And he still looks pretty great. I would love to hear that. I mean, I am a very like, I'm a pretty obsessive, researched, prepared person. I feel more comfortable that way. To the point where I came here. ready with questions for you. If the tape went bad and this went south, I had something to save us. Okay, well, we can get into some of your questions for Act 2, or maybe they can just be peppered in throughout the show. We never know what's going to happen. The Act 1, 2, 3 does let me know that you're a film buff. Which I know you don't like films that much, Chris. No, no, I don't. But I also understand that it's a very important art form that people are dedicated to the same way I like music. I don't care to watch them, but I respect it as a thing. And I totally understand why people go line up to see a 70mm print of some shit at midnight. I mean, they're dorks, but I understand why they do it. Here's one thing. I really kind of met you both at the... The El Rey show that you two did. Actually, we met originally at the On Air Fest. On Air Fest. Oh, right, right, right. I was hosting. In Brooklyn, where you hosted that. Must have been nice. I bet you got paid for that. Anyway, go ahead. Yeah, no, I know. You got paid in granola bars just like we did. Yeah, they gave you. And some local IPAs. I received a free Stitcher account. That's great. Stitcher premium.

Let's go. Can't put a price on Stretcher Premium. Yeah, no, it's only the three-month trial. By the way, decidedly they have put a price on it. But I was wondering, because you two don't really do this together in person. You two really like doing virtual interviews, which I find, like, why is that? Do you two not like doing it in person as much? whenever chris and i are in the same city we'll do the one-on-one monday episodes right in the same room together or if we're traveling doing shows and we'll i'll go to his but not with the guests not with the yeah i used i used to be and i'll let you talk chris i'm sorry for stepping but i used to podcast before only in the room the thought of doing a zoom virtual call or podcast was an asinine thought to me and then when covid came i i began to love the idea of it because You could say things to people that you might not be able to say to them when they're looking you right in the eye, constantly insulting them or secretly behind their back saying jokes about them or whatever it is. And then also I think of podcasts as a thing that I do. I listen to a podcast passively while I'm doing something else. So I'm never in the room with them. So I feel like you get. I get to record the way that I like to listen to a podcast, if that makes sense. I like that. But, yeah, I mean, I think it also – that's just, like, how we started because we were in different places. And I also – In the pandemic, right. But the real key is that people will agree to do it because there's – It's a very low ask of them. No hair and makeup. Roll over, put in your AirPods, and turn on the computer is a lot better than meet me at the studio. Here's the parking validation code when you leave. You're describing our process. No, for sure. I've done stuff like that before. We're going to have an hour-long photo shoot after the podcast as well. We try to keep that to 10 minutes. It's fun to do that, though. If it's a real celebrity,

They're used to doing shit that way. They would probably have a harder time doing it our way. Like Tom Hanks is like, yeah, my driver will take me to the studio. Tom Hanks, you two having Tom Hanks on would be really incredible. I actually think he would enjoy it. I really do. I agree, Sam. I do think as well that Tom Hanks should do How Long Gone. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world.

writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. Head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. I think he would, and he would do it virtually because he loves doing podcasts, and he has a mic, and he would do a Zoom with you. He'll talk to anyone. I mean, he was very good at talking on Zoom right when he announced that COVID happened. Oh, I forgot he was patient zero. From his green screen Australian trailer bunker. The COVID mascot. Yeah, the COVID mascot. I mean, I forget about COVID every day, but I really forgot about him being the... Actually, I saw somebody tweet today about, can I throw away my fake vax card at U.S. government? I'm like, damn, bro. Like, who's thinking about that still? Chris, how many fake vax cards did you have? Actually, no, no. I was unfortunately fully vaccinated, and it caused me a lot of problems. And I'm here to tell the tale. Yeah, Chris suffers from long vax. I was able to. I could have gotten. I had several friends dealing fake vax cards.

From your music days? No, no, these are just low-lifes. Why, do you need something, Sam? Just blink twice if you need something, bro. No, no, I did know several people who were... We're selling them and buying them for that matter. They were moving. But no. So what happened to you? What's the traumatic? Oh, no. That's a joke. The gyms were closed for a year and a half. Oh. The joke is that it made people into even more like bigger dorks than they were before. That's all. It revealed. I will say COVID revealed a lot of people's true colors. And I think that was. It did. Obviously, a lot of people died. That's bad. But the true colors of the, you know, always mask. vibe that is still continuing is pretty amazing yeah i mean i mean obviously the tragedy of it is like i don't know if we've actually reckoned with that in any real way and i think it's gonna like keep playing out but the social part of it when we came back to the world i'm sure did you did you have people that were like yeah you know i should kind of like staying at home oh that's that's the worst and i was like wow i can't believe we were friends for so long that's yeah insane You just told me you were a loser without telling me you're a loser. To me, it's not a loser. To me, it's like you haven't given up on life. It's just life has become so punishingly difficult and so punishingly easy to just stay at home where everything's comfortable. No one's going to hurt your feelings. No one's going to kill you. It's clean. It's nice. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. And after spending two years inside of your house doing that, I mean, I'm a social person. I go out every day, but I understand. I feel the pull of wanting to go home. No, it's so unhealthy, though. That's insane. Like, that's just as bad as going out every night. Of course. I mean, it's Black Mirror shit. It's just everyone's going to be plugged into their rascal toilet Bluetooth thingy, and then you just watch a continuous feed of, you know, bum fights and have Postmates deliver it to you. It's the vibe of I have a cooler.

in my sofa is is is the same is the is like where it's just like sometimes a little bit of inconvenience is good i think for our development as human beings best to be inconvenienced yeah it's unfortunate that blockbuster is gone like back in the day that that was good you needed to go to the store you needed to pick seven movies and five of them are horrendous you don't read reviews about you just That was a good thing. Okay, money bag. Seven movies? Christ on a cracker. He's a film buff. Just kidding. But I know what you mean. But when I watch a film on Peacock and it's bad, I'm like, eh, whatever. I change it and I put something else on. But when you get in your car with your family, screaming, crying, you go, find a parking spot, go into Blockbuster, pick up the movie, pay for it, blah, blah, blah. You're going to sit down and you're going to watch that fucking movie. And it might make you appreciate one. Just nailed my childhood there. Just unbelievable stuff. Thanks, man. How's that green juice, Jason? Oh, my AG1? It's wonderful. Where do you get that from? Well, I get it for free. Every podcaster gets AG1 for free. You still drink that even though they don't sponsor the show? That's crazy. I drink it every morning. Well, I mix it because it helps mask the collagen that I put in. You know what I'm talking about? No. The vital collagen. Chris knows what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about. My bovine powder. Sam's 29 years old and he's got hair touching his shoulders. He ain't worried about his collagen yet. Okay. Well, preventative. Do you have any joint issues, Sam? How is your bone density? My bone density is pretty good. I have an infrared 300 thing right here. That's right next to me. I play basketball. Infrared 300? What's that? It's for... Apparently, it's good for bone stuff. I play basketball like three times a week. Literally, what is infrared? It's like a light. It's like a light that you adjust. Yeah, it's a red light. It's apparently good for recovery. Oh, it's just a light. So it's not like a face mask or anything like that. You can put it. It's okay to put it on your face for like 10 minutes. It's okay. It's okay to put it on your face. Okay. I think it's okay. I'm going to use some red light therapy today, just like you. Are you? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I got it. You do like that contrast therapy at pause? No, I got the sauna right here, bro. Oh, my God. Yeah.

That's incredible. Oh, are you a Paws guy, Sam? I'm also a Paws guy. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Do you have a membership, though? Did you give in to their scam, or do you pay a la carte? I don't have a membership to Paws. I don't have a membership to Air One, even though I live close to both of them. Okay, Sam, we have some similarities. Unfortunately, I do have a membership to Air One. The PAWS membership is a bridge too far. And you guys probably live by different Erewhons. I'm guessing you're Silver Lake and Chris's WeHo? No, he lives in WeHo. No, that's lame, Mama. Because Erewhon and PAWS, there's only one place. Both of those things exist in such close proximity. Yeah. PAWS feels a little, and this isn't saying much, but it feels a little upmarket for Silver Lake. How dare you? By the way, Chris, half of your listeners right now. The other half are in Bed-Stuy. The other half are in Silver Lake. Yeah, and they drive to West Hollywood to get their sauna on. That's fine. No, no, no. They like it. It's the same reason when we look at our podcast regional demographics, the top three cities are Brooklyn, New York, and Los Angeles. So it's the same thing as – like LA, it's like Silver Lake and Los Angeles. You know what I mean? What's the racial breakdown? Of your listeners. We don't have that kind of data, Sam. Actually, honestly, I wish we could get... I know that our gender is like 60-40 male-female with a 1% non-binary. I know that you've famously been saying this for a long time on Twitter and stuff, but how much you want to figure out the racial demographics. I don't know why you're so keen on that, but it's basically your... Hillary's emails or Hunter's emails, where are the racial demos? They're never going to do that. No, I mean, they know that somewhere, but they're not going to let us. Yeah, of course. Oh, they definitely know it. They definitely know. Elk knows it. Tim Cook knows it. Stitcher Premium knows it. Stitcher does not know a whole lot.

It's good to do a podcast where you can make audio jokes and get laughs. Well, no one listening is laughing, just me and Jason. No, everyone who's on the insider of the podcast world listens to our pod. So I think we get a lot of DMs from people on the inside throwing us a chuckle that they can't publicly do. You know what I mean? The whole base is inside. I feel like that's the whole thing. I remember when the show came out in the pandemic, there were a bunch of people writing articles. And every article was like, why do people like this podcast? It's like they try to discover the mystery. Oh, I know. Just two buddies having a good time. Like Nick Kwa did an investigative study into and he started asking people and they're like, yeah, I don't know. It just sounds like it's for smart people who like dumb stuff. And all my cool friends who are part of the Dime Square community listen to it. It's like, what? is this the new york times wrote an article i i was so confused well i think it's just simply because people might not want to publicly admit that they listen to us and that's just what it boils down to you two are good hangs that's it you two are good no but people think i think people i think most people think that podcasts should like in make them smarter like they're listening to like i listen to daily every day so i know what's going on in ukraine you know instead i don't know if that makes you smarter it definitely doesn't it definitely just like when they want a biohack when you're like hey hey sam what are your top 10 favorite releases of the year You're going to use that as an opportunity to show the world how smart, esoteric and interesting and obscure your tastes are. And you're not going to be like new fucking Doja Cat is slapping. I love the fart song by I Spice and Boy Genius Rule. You know, like you're going to say some like jazz reissue from 76. So your bros can be like sick. Same thing with the podcasting.

Like, Joe Rogan is never going to be on any list ever. We're never going to be on any NPR. I'm not either, by the way. No, you're on there. Come on. Almost? No, no, no. Honestly, almost never. Honestly, almost never. Bummer. And I think also it's the interview stuff. I was going to ask you guys, how do you two feel about the fall of Pitchfork a little bit? We've talked about it a lot, actually. Did I miss that? Have you talked about it at all? I haven't talked about it, but I'm curious. You two know so much about that. Whoa. I mean. I know too much probably, but I think that – I just don't think it's that big of a deal, and I think whatever the new version is will probably be just as good. I don't think that – I just don't – I think the way that people – take every business decision as like the end of something feels a little extreme to me is my it's not the end yeah i don't think it's the end no it's not the end and that's i think it'll just be it'll just be different you know it's tough i mean i you know to bring it back like when i started when i was like a fledgling film critic i was an intern at the dissolve that that pitchfork had that film site that they had that dissolved quickly didn't it it sure did and and what was striking is like they they hired the best people like scott tobias keith phipps like they got murderers they're great people and they're talented i like that you mentioned i like you mentioned these legends that sound like guys that i've never heard of i'll just say that they're all they're all gainfully employed and and very smart talented filmmakers the point was it didn't It didn't matter. The site ended in a year and a half. It dissolved, as Jason said, in a year and a half. As a film critic, sorry to interrupt, how gainfully employed can one be in 2024 as a film critic? I think some of them pay for their kids' colleges. Oh, I believe that. I bet there's 10 guys that make real bread doing that. It's hard out there. It's why I stopped. I was like 20 or 21. I was like, yeah, this is...

It's a wrap. What was your beat? Or was it just everything? I was doing some interviews. I was doing interviews, but I also did reviews, and I just didn't see it. You know that scene in Inside Llewyn Davis where it's like, F. Murray Abraham's like, I don't see a lot of money here. I just saw it. I looked in the mirror. I was like, it's not happening. It's not happening. That's good that you realize that because some people don't understand that their passions can't pay the bills and then run it into the ground bottom out which is not great yeah actually this this is something that i was talking about at um i was at my brother's house watching the football game on sunday and i was talking to a couple people who mentioned a friend of the show how to dress well tom crell and he he had a theory that he was sort of floating that independent music and musicianship should sort of transform into the state of being a hobby versus a viable career path and if you want like You can go on tour. You could release records. You can play some shows. You could be a musician, but it's a hobby now. It's not a viable path to make a living, and you should do that on the weekends while you have your real job Monday through Friday. I'd say the same is true of podcasting. I mean, especially podcasting. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, this takes way less skill. I would say to Tom, though, this is like when we had that. argument about who was it that was like complaining about having to not go on her tour because it didn't sell oh that's a lot of people it was a big thing she wrote like a big post about it and everybody was like yeah i forgot who it was now and i tried to google it but anyway the but but the point is to me it's every business is if you're good at it you can make money like that's the thing if if you're good like doja cat ain't worried you know what i mean like ariana grande ain't worried i understand the middle class is different but like Were you ever making that much money as a middle? You know what I mean? Like, was it ever really that viable as, like, an indie artist? I don't know. Maybe it was in the 90s. I'm not saying that Tom thinks that this is what should happen. He was more just saying, like, it's a thing. It's an option. It's an option. Maybe that he predicts.

the way things are going well i kind of i kind of feel like that would be the sort of situation where as soon as you do that then your career explodes because you like approach it differently you know without a without an overarching sense of desperation yeah without being like if if this doesn't work for me i don't know what i will do it but the thing is and this is with everything now everybody thinks they're owed a job in whatever industry that they choose you know and i just yeah that's what i find so hard to to understand is like We don't need any of this shit. Anything we're into, we don't need. We're not doctors. We're not frontline workers. It's not important. You're not owed this by big corporations or society or whatever. It blows my mind. We're icing on the cake. Yeah. When the going gets tough, you're going to eat the cake even if it's not ice. I love doing it, but if my career didn't work out, I would have to go do something else, and I don't know if I would blame anyone but myself. No, they would let you keep the GQ newsletter thing you do. Even when I start polishing floors down at the jail, they're going to let me. If you work with J.Crew, if you walk down the street without clothes on, you'll be arrested. So it's not a utility, but it is a necessity. You do work with J.Crew, right? Is that right? I do. Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. And I love it, but I know that nothing – I guess what I'm trying to say, I just don't – it's specifically with creative pursuits. It's not really with anything else because no one else thinks like that. Because I think people, if you think you are born to be a musician or born to be this or that, you can't compute a world without it, which is unfortunate and it sucks. But like that ain't anybody's fault. Yeah. I don't think anyone's born to be anything. I agree. They think that. I think you're born and then your job is to try to apply or find meaning. And hopefully you can find that. But I don't.

I don't know. Maybe because I thought I was born to be an NBA basketball player. Obviously, genetically, I don't have anyone on either the white or the Mexican side over six feet. It was never going to happen. Que lastima. I'm so glad we covered this part on the How Long Gone pod. So you're saying that you, yeah, I think sports is something, though. The reason sports is different is because it's physical, and there's just things that, like, who are you going to blame, God, that you're not 6'6"? Like, sure. Oh, I tried. I tried, of course. Yeah, of course. I mean, like, writers and photographers, like, there's the really, really successful ones. have a thing that you can't teach that is sort of inherently in them and they're able to get it out of them. I believe all you need is a piece of paper. George Saunders has something or a Joel Meyer was taking a photo. Totally. I don't know what that is. I still don't think George was born in like, I don't know, Amarillo, Texas. I don't think he woke up and was like, yep, got to. Got to start putting out these short story collections. I think you found it. I think you found it. I think you found it in college. I know you did. I think you do find it. I agree. I totally agree. Most people are just not willing to do the work of finding it, I guess. It's a scary thing. Stop at the word work. Yeah, I mean, I guess if you could call doing mushrooms work. I think we need less podcasts, less... Less of all of it. Honestly, we need less of all of it. I would agree. And you know who doesn't agree is our friends over at SiriusXM who just gave $100 million to Smartless. And that's money that's getting taken out of our fucking pockets. We would have done that for $5 million. We would have switched over to SiriusXM. When you two saw that news, just... Who called the other one first? This has happened a lot. With that show in particular. This is the second $100 million deal that these millionaires have got since we've been doing a podcast. When they put the show out, Jason sent it to me and was like, this is really tough to watch because this is exactly what we would do if we were rich. Their TV show, their HBO show. I saw it. I wouldn't do black and white. I'm not a hater of the podcast.

But that documentary was truly awful. Well, you know, they donate a lot of their money that they make. Really? No, not at all. They donated to the Donald Trump golf course every Sunday at about 3.15. That's really funny. We only talk shit because we are supremely jealous. Yeah, for sure. I hope to be in that position one day as well, of course, because Chris and I feel as if we do the same exact thing that they do. except they make hundreds of millions of dollars because they have huge guests on and we have you. No offense, but you're no President Biden. I don't think it's about the guests at all. I think it's because they're already very famous. Like, that has way more to do with it than who they're talking to. I wouldn't call them very famous. You think their career that they had for 25-plus years, all three of them, collectively? Those guys have been on some of those popular television shows ever created. I would argue... On the graded scale, none of them are A-list. Yeah, I mean, actually, I want to say, Jason, I'm a little offended because they did call me. I just said no to coming on. Yeah, I don't think they're A-list, but when you get three... Not today, big fella. Not today. That's pretty good. I mean, that's better than what most people got. There's also... You two can't be too hard on yourselves. There are three of them. You need maybe one more. Let's make it even more complicated. No, I've never... I'm proud to say I've never listened to it. That makes so much sense. That makes so much sense that you haven't heard it. I don't think I will. It really is the same exact show as ours. They do all of it remotely over Zoom, and it's basically three guys making fun of a gay guy for an hour, and then you say, like, you know, Rosario Dawson, you're such a rock star, and then let's go pay some bills. Oh, man. When you think about it, Jason, all podcasts are basically just that. I mean, ours is the most similar, but they're all kind of like that. Yeah. I mean, Sam, speaking of that, I feel like every week we are reading news about podcast networks, shuffling, unions, layoffs, things closing down. How have you been able to avoid this so far as well? I would say that we haven't been.

unaffected by it. It has hit almost every show I know. It's hit almost every show by people who do it for a living. I'm not really sure there's anyone that's unspaired outside of Smartless. I feel like the people who are unspaired are the people who don't have teams. This is not 100% across the board, but I feel like the people who are affected the most are the people who have large payrolls of employees doing lots of jobs and the ones that sort of are independent and it's just a few people or maybe just one person is able to survive, which is sort of parallel to many other career paths failing and succeeding in the rest of the world. I don't know how inside baseball we want to get, but I think what's happening in podcasting is not dissimilar to what we saw in film and TV last year. There was an overcorrection. And there was an overspending that happened in the pandemic where people were at home and all they could do was watch Netflix or listen to How Long Gone or Talk Easy or any of the podcasts that they like. The ad stuff was up. People spent. I think it will come back around, but there were too many shows. There were too many TV shows. There are too many podcasts. I want people to have jobs, but I mean. Too many books? I'm not going to, you know, the publishing world is struggling enough. We don't need to bash them. Too many restaurants? I mean, any of these creative fields where we all realize, I mean, I guess there's an overspending on the creative arts where nobody wants to have a regular job. I want to make a lot of money doing a cool job. And we just don't have very many cool jobs. Chris, what do you think? Chris, you're sitting there pensively. Oh, he's been reading his emails the entire time. He doesn't know what... What is this? I figured as much, so I'm trying to bring him back in. No, no, no. I think that this is just what happens. It's just like pitchfork. This is what happens. Things bloat and they contract. Things bloat and they contract. And that's just what happens. You can look at history and see that. Obviously, some of it is more severe than others, but like...

We have too much stuff. Jason's right, though. No one wants a job. No one wants a regular job. Everybody thinks they're creative. Everybody thinks they should be able to do what they love for a living, and I think that's part of the problem. How do you feel about the three of us all sounding like Clint Eastwood and Gran Torino right now? I've never seen that, so tell me what it sounds like. I mean, you can imagine Clint Eastwood. We all sound like we need men. To go back to manual labor. We need men to do real jobs. We need people to stop being creative. I don't think anyone should stop being creative. I think that when you look at why things happen, there are reasons why things happen. People overestimate and overspend on something, and they have to pull it back. There's going to be some casualties of that. Great film, by the way, Sam. A lot of great slurs on that one. Interesting you picked that one. There's this one favorite line where it goes, rustle me up some of that good food. What a great tale. I wanted to talk about how gatekeeping affects this, where we hit it with music first. Why do I need a record label? I have GarageBand on my computer. I make it in my bedroom. I record it. I upload it to Spotify. I book all my own tours. I make my own merch. There's like nine people who are good enough to do that. Okay, well, hold on. And it's starting to happen with film as well, where you don't have to go through the traditional system. Little things can come through. And obviously with podcasting, anyone can do it. Somebody told me today, I just released a restaurant review of horses today. I read it this morning. Thank you. I didn't say it was good. Thank you for clicking through. We love it. It was good. I liked it. And somebody was like, I was thinking they're like, hey, it would be great if the LA Times or the New York Times had reviews like this with like, it's not just so sterile and like, I wish you worked for the Times.

And it was weird for me to think that, like, if I became the food editor for the L.A. Times, the most prestigious job in this state for food writing, it would be a downgrade in pay from anyone with a sub stack. Well, they would also be able to write what you wrote this morning. That's not going to happen. Potentially. I know. They would just. edit it and they would they would they would push you in a whole bunch of directions you don't want right i have to reread the first three paragraphs but there's something in there it's like no chance there's a lot of offensive stuff in there but yeah the leo common i mean there's no way there's no way well newspapers newspapers more than anything else like are pretty serious about their voice across the entire. Jason would have to write Mr. DiCaprio. But is that what's killing them? No, that's not what's killing them. It's just you can get the news for free on the Internet. That's what's killing them. No, it is not about the contents. It don't matter. Well, it's not about the content, but it's how the content is being delivered to you. Do I want to read the Washington Post or do I want to hear a comedian who's smart also? tell me about this article in a way that I like to listen to. I'm not talking about myself. Have the person who has paid for a subscription to give the TLDR on the pod about it. Yeah, and I'll put ads behind that. Someone's paying for it somewhere. Yeah. I always think about this. Did we make a mistake? And this goes back to the music conversation, and you two have a lot more knowledge on this. I don't know. I just feel like giving things away for free, not a great business. Not a great business, and I think you're seeing it in podcasting. Speak for yourself, Chief. But don't you give it away for free? Yeah. Don't I ever. Well, I mean, obviously there's – I'm just not sure it's a good – yes, the show is for free. It's not tiered. It's not behind a pair wall. The archives are there. There's 400 episodes. But I do think the model is challenging, and I think when the ad market –

goes up and down as it does, and it does. This is what happens. When it's down and you don't have... You guys have a lot of good merch stuff and you have your... It seems like you figured out a supplemental thing. But it's hard for most... I DJ weddings. To do that. That's right. Why don't they hire you to DJ the WMAG party? That's what I would like. It's a lot of inter... inter... public... inter... Was that your friend, Chris? Inter-publish-ionary. He's a good friend of ours. You know, people get grandfathered in friends' events. Oh, by the way, listener, that was a bridge too far for Chris. Everything else. No, no, no. I was doing one of your style laughs where you move the mic away. Where you create an animated visual laugh that is inaudible for our listener. Right, for the audio medium that we're working on. I would love to DJ those types of things, but I got a little dirt under my nails compared to some other people for those types of events. I'm not going to... I have no idea what that means. It means someone's going to drive the car. You don't shower or something? Metaphorically speaking, I shower daily. For those types of events with those types of crowds... We want somebody to drive the car 65 miles an hour down the freeway. And I'm getting a little squirrely. I'm running Reds. I'm doing things. You're going 85. I'm going 85. I'm taking a risk that might not pay off. And we can't afford that. And also, I'm not hot, young, and famous. I'd say you're one of them. I would say the music at those parties doesn't actually matter. It's kind of the reality. And your friend did a fine job. People are only there to see each other and talk to each other. And if there's a Dua Lipa song or there's some weird Jason shit, that's fine. Nobody's dancing regardless. You're there for media moments. I did a little dancing. But to bring it back, Chris, do you think I'm off on that? The free model? No, you're definitely right. It was passed down from music, which you two, I presume, are part of.

I pay for everything. I'm happy to pay. It doesn't bother me at all. But I think we were conditioned for a very long time that it should be free. Wait, when has music ever been free, though? I mean, I still think, and I'm not against it, but, well, one, go back to the Frost Wire, Lime Wire days, which were a joy. Okay. Yeah. Well, when has music ever been free legally? Yeah. We've been able to pirate every art form. I can go film a movie with a camcorder in the theater. I'm just saying when people are like, man, I can't believe Spotify may cost $13 instead of $10. And you have the history of music essentially at your fingertips. And I used to go spend $19 on one CD at Best Buy. And if I lose it, it's gone forever. I got a red eye from Blue Bottle that cost $9.50 yesterday. What are we talking about? I got a red eye from Blue Bottle. Chris pays. 50 bucks a month and pause memberships. I mean, what are we saying? It's nothing. No, but people do. People think that people want to pay for experiences and listening to music. But also people don't have a problem paying for streaming television. No one has a problem paying for streaming television. No one talks about that the same way as they talk about music. Well, this is a theory that I was floating when we did a show in San Francisco last week about... Everyone complains about the internet needing regulation and the government has to step in to fix the problems with how algorithms are ruining our lives and our brains are rotting because of all this shit and TikTok and Instagram and all that shit. If we are going to have this advertisement model, if everything is going to have to have ads against it to pay for everything, why not make every ad good? Why not regulate advertising? a humanitarian way or like an offensive or you know make sure nobody gets offended but just simply like the joke that i made was take all the people who were laid off at pitchfork and make them review ads yeah on a numerical system if it gets you know a 7.0 or higher this ad will be able to be aired you both you both would make bank if that was the case right i mean you don't you two do that kind of work i actually i i absolutely hate

people talking about advertisements like it's art it makes me insane like super bowl commercial shit makes me crazy it's like get a get a life i can't talk about a pepsi i love that talking about a pepsi ad like it matters yeah like yeah it's either good or bad there's nothing to dissect well i think they they talk about it like that because here's the thing that we all have to consume endure whether we like it or not whether it's good or bad so i'm just saying like what if it was just You know, like we all have to go to the dentist and one day someone's like, here's laughing gas. And you're like, OK, this is enjoyable. Yeah, I think ads are you only really should notice when it's bad. A good one is like, OK, that was inoffensive. I moved on. Yeah, that's true. We're good. Maybe there's a funny and the Super Bowl ones, I think, are about like Larry David doing a crypto Sam Bankman free that. I think that's more about seeing him do that, which was bizarre. But this is my point about something like that. It's like. What is there to talk about? He did it for the money, and that's it. That's it. It's like Larry David did a commercial for money. It's like I don't care if it's funny. He didn't know that Sam Bankman-Fried was swindling billions of dollars? He had no idea. How would he know that? He wasn't on that plane. He wasn't on that plane either, that's for sure. That's for sure. Not Larry. Oh, man. Oh, Larry. Yeah, I was going to say your last episode where you and a friend were talking about Oscar. nominations and snubs and things like that. It was nice to hear you. Oh, my close personal friend, Wesley Morris? That's right, Wesley. But it was nice to hear you talk in a bros-chatting kind of way instead of interviewing Willem Dafoe in a very serious manner. So I like to see this side of you coming out. That's awesome. The range. Wait, can I ask some questions before we leave? Yeah, we'll give you five minutes. Go ahead. You can ask two and a half questions. Jason, I'm curious because You taught Zac Efron how to DJ on We Are Your Friends, right? That's right, yeah. And so I just was like, when you were doing training gym sessions with Zac Efron for the Iron Claw, how was that? I mean, my results weren't quite as good as his, unfortunately, but I was having to kind of focus on his form and kind of what he was doing, so I wasn't able to get the lifts in in the same way. The Claw did perform better at the box office. Than the DJ movie? Yeah, I mean.

I perform better than the DJ movie at the box office, so I haven't released a film. Okay, here's a real question. Do you two... I'm sorry. Do you two... Okay. Do you two want to be fathers? And if so, at what point would you introduce your kids to the podcast? Like, when they turn 13, we'd be like, here's Goodfellas, here's Kid A, and here's our podcast with Chris Ryan. No and never. Chris Ryan. No and never. Let me just lay it out for you real quick. No and never. Next question, Longhair. Next question. You thought you had one, didn't you? You thought you had one. Well, this is something that I've thought about more than Chris, but not enough to have a kid. You feel like a dad, Jason. You feel like a dad to me. No, people tell me that a lot. I am giving daddy vibes in more ways than one. No, not daddy. Dad. Let's be clear. Yeah, yeah. Not daddy. Actually, decidedly, not daddy. Yeah, don't put those words in his mouth. Nowhere near, Daddy. Drop that Y. This Daddy splits the check just like that. I thought you said your wife does better than you. Why isn't she just covering? Great question. I know that based on the sauna right now. We bought that together as a Christmas present to each other. But I've thought about, jokingly, but there is a little tinge of truth to it. The more you podcast and the more... people have parasocial relationships with you and more thousands and thousands of people listen and send you messages and like that. I kind of feel like I don't need kids because I have a lot of kids all over the world. There are a lot of 17-year-old straight white guys who look to me for guidance. And is it better to help one little TJ or a thousand? tjs who are already born who i don't have to pay for their fucking wow orthodontist appointments or anything like that i don't have to teach them about the birds and the bees you think of your podcast listeners as kind of surrogate children not so much but i'm saying that scratches my my itch there's no way chris does there's no way chris does no no god no i try not to think about children at all if i can but a younger me would think about like

It seems exciting to take all the knowledge that I have about the world, bestow it to my seed, and then see how far they can get with the head start. Because Chris and I didn't really get head starts in terms of cultural information being passed down on to us. We had to sort of discover everything ourselves on our own. And now that I'm an adult, it seems like a fun experiment to tell a three-year-old, here's life and how to live it in every single way. take off. The ultimate mansplaining. I'm fine with having hundreds of thousands of those young people all over the world listening to McDonald's commercials and making me money instead of costing me money. My last question. This is going to be a serious one. Because the two of you put so much of your lives in this show, how much of your life is spent living in a kind of like... You're always sort of thinking about the tape. Are you able to live in an actual moment and be present? Or is there always a part of the both of you going like, oh, this is going to be good on the show. Actually, and in fact, we're going to do more things or different things so that we have it for material on the show. Is it hard to be in the moment? When you have to, like, put your life on this pod? Chris, this is the most serious thing asked today. No, somewhat, but also, like, I just don't. Good question? Yeah, no, no, it's a good question. Somewhat, but also. We do things to specifically talk about, but my life isn't that. Going to see Joe Rogan do stand-up or going to see Tim Dillard, we do things specifically to talk about it, and that's different to me than the minutia of the everyday, I guess is what I'm trying to say. We have the privilege of having everything we do being a business expense or write-off. And I mean that literally as well as spiritually. But I'm able to live in the present due to THC gummies. And also, if something cool happens in real life, I just pull up my notes app. I write down a one-word sentence that will remind me of this. And then I forget about it until it's time to do a podcast again, which is three times a week. So that cadence sort of keeps everything going where you don't have to go back and remember what happened.

But I think it's a blessing to be able to get paid and make a living talking about dumb little things that happen to you throughout your day. Well, honestly, thank you for coming on the show. No, thank you, Sam. It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure, and I hope you make it to the NBA one day. Deadass. Yeah, who are you taking for the Oscars? Best picture, actress, and actor? Oppenheimer. But what do you think is going to win? Let's do not who you want to win, who will win. I think it's going to be Oppenheimer for Best Picture. Best Actor, I think it's going to be Giamatti. And then Actress, I don't know. I think Lily Gladstone. Okay. Lily Gladstone. Or it could be Emma Stone. Yeah, that makes sense. Is that your closing question, Jason? I guess it is. I mean, we can't do this forever. I know it's so fun. But at a certain point, I do have to edit this. Okay. And release it to the internet. Well, Chris, good luck in Fashion Week. I hope you don't want to keep the driver waiting. I get to go to a Ghani activation right now. Let me run to the door. No idea what that is, but we need to stop with... We need to stop with activations. I'm out. Don't do that. That's a portion of Jason's income. We can't take that away. Look, do you think people should stay at home or go to activations? Which one is it, Sam? I don't get it. Talk about middle ground. I hope there's something in between. Yeah, let's all hope. Fingers crossed. Nobody can afford to do anything unless a brand pays for it. So for now, it will be an activation. That's the real bottom line. And you know what? To bring us full circle. The three of us are open to all invitations to any kind of party. That's true. And we will take them. Activation or otherwise. That's true. Sam will go to the opening of an envelope. Thank you for joining us, Sam. Appreciate you both. God bless. All right, we found it.