456. - Goo Goo Dolls

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Hello and gone. We live. Happy Valentine's Day from us here at your favorite podcast. It's a beautiful sunny day. in new york um we're recording this a little earlier than usual because our illustrious guest needed to reschedule because i'm sure uh he had to go pick up a couple dozen roses for his main squeeze as well um but uh you know this is what this is comes with the territory jason Uh, how are you feeling over there? I'm feeling good. It was a chill, chill V-Day. It was a little sprinkly this morning. It's cold. It's not very sunny at all. Oh, hell no. Pretty much all the Valentine's Day stuff has already been done. We kind of had Valentine's week, so, you know, I made a little tea, a little tea in bed. Tea? This morning. Jesus Christ, it's getting dark over there. Look, some people drink tea. I don't get it either. I don't support it. communists do it i guess i don't know the only people that should drink tea are british people we all know that you know and if you don't if you drink tea because you like hot water with a little bit of flavor in it what about what about asian motherfuckers though because they kind of invented the game of tea you know what i mean you're right i apologize asians not to call my fiance a motherfucker but the asians and asians and brits are allowed to drink tea and of course singers you know as a member of the community we always have to kind of be rehabbing our voices we're going to be getting into tea talk

with our guest today i'm sure um but tonight what do you what do you guys have on the docket for tonight the reddit wants to know tom brown at the shed uh tom brown springs whatever 23 tonight at five o'clock okay um you're looking at it Going out to eat on Valentine's Day is a fool's errand. Everybody knows that. Of course. That's why I went to the Gucci Osteria a full week in advance, just to avoid all the losers. The real breaking Valentine's Day news is not happening between us. Go on. Even though I'm sure a lot of people would like that to be the case. Ooh, boyfriend reveal. There was a photo posted earlier today from a friend of the show, Eric Andre. It's Eric Andre's New York, isn't it? It was seemingly one of his silly posts where his hog is covered by a glass of wine. He's known to do this. It's kind of silly. And what a hog it is. And you're like, oh, is this a selfie? What's going on here? Maybe it's a self-timer. Maybe it's his social media manager. I feel like my mom has seen Eric Andre's penis. You know what I mean? It's in public domain. It's like, happy birthday. Maybe his social media manager, this is part of their job. But then you look into the reflection of the mirror, and guess who's taken the picture and also seems to be only partially clothed, Jason? I mean, my only guess could be Eric Andre's life partner, Emily Ratajkowski. That's right. So they went to the Knicks game last night, and it was a real trifecta. It was Eric Andre, Emily Ratajkowski, Diplo. Well, it was a quad, it was a quad factor. Cause Diplo was wearing those fucking shoes. Oh yeah. Diplo is still wearing the Mr. Shoes. Come on, bro. I hate the shoes. I fucking hate the shoes. I didn't want to talk about them. But that being said, I was looking at that. I was looking at his posts with the shoes and I'm like, if I was famous enough to receive them, just like have them sent to me to my hotel room in my size with the unboxing, like. We all know that I would wear them. I don't know if I would be able to wear them to a Knicks game. I don't have that much chutzpah. I don't think you would be wearing them courtside, but you could wear them to the bodega. That's true. But anyway, it's a big day for Eric. It's a big day for Emily. We'll get into it. But I also, there's some other news, and this is breaking hearts on Valentine's Day. It looks like musician Pharrell Williams skateboard pee.

is taking over the house of Louis Vuitton. He's no longer skateboard Pete, he's like pin cushion Pete. I mean, his seamstress work is... I mean, look, he's famous for wearing a hat for a little while. But also, speaking of Tom Brown, he kind of, he really kicked off five foot one guy wearing shorts. as a suit kind of thing like short suit no tom was tom was definitely doing the red carpet for years tom was definitely new for him just based on age alone we don't know that we don't know that we actually do know that they probably both came up with it at the same time that's true they were they were at breakfast and they kind of were like who's gonna do it first and so i so this is bad news for a lot of reasons one because it's he's a music producer A very talented one. It's going to be a very strange thing to watch people react to this because everyone loves Pharrell because he's given us so much. He's truly a genius. He's great looking, personable. Yeah. I mean, I said this earlier this morning in the group chat, but he's also up all night for good fun. So the guy likes to have good fun. So I assume that his designs will also be good. His pattern making. His hemlines? His lapel work? I saw my friend Luke this morning. He was like... They're going to have the streets in a headlock with the cactus plant flea market Louis Vuitton drops, which is extremely sad and also extremely true. I love it when somebody has the streets in a headlock and it involves cacti. Yeah, me too. So cactus plant flea market LV coming soon. And shout out to a friend of the show, longtime friend Jacob Gallagher, for getting the scoop on this. He broke the news at the Wall Street Journal, which is a big deal. get for him I'm very proud of him and I asked how many people he had to confirm this with and he was just like a shitload so uh i think how does how does i actually always wondered like how does that scoop happen does somebody tell somebody tells him or he pries that information out of someone yeah it's one of those and then he has to go and ask like seven other people who are aware of the situation they'll be like you ain't here for me but it's you know i think it's gonna happen yeah basically yeah because because once i mean you know wall street journal you crazy once you once you tell people you know you can kind of tell by their reaction

You know, how far you can push with them to get the confirmation. But yeah, I mean, look, it's not great. Hopefully it doesn't affect the human race Adidas collaborations. I know you're pretty into those. Yeah, I mean, because if that takes a hit, I don't know what they're going to do at TJ Maxx to keep the shelves stocked. It makes me wonder if like Martine Rose, Grace Wales Bonner, if these other people said no. Because I just – honestly, I wonder because I think this will obviously work for monetary reasons, I would guess, and that's like kind of a home run. But the idea of, I don't know, getting someone who does this professionally to kind of do it is also – Those days are long gone, long gone. I mean they are, but they aren't. I mean it's still like – Everyone knows that Martine Rose was designing a lot of the stuff when Virgil was there, so it makes me think it was her job to reject is my personal feeling. I have no data on this, obviously. Yeah, but I think those situations, the people who are actual professional clothing designers who have worked their whole entire life for an opportunity like this, not unlike me complaining about celebrity DJs taking our jobs, it's the same exact thing. It has nothing to do with talent or skill. It's just like, will your name being attached to this make more money than, you know? Nobody knows who Grace Wales Bonner is in the real world. I do. You do. We're both gay. That's the only reason. But otherwise, they're like, oh, Pharrell. Me, no Pharrell. Happy. I like. And then that's it, you know? Yeah, but, I mean, nobody knew who Virgil was. I mean, they didn't really know who Virgil was. You know what I mean? Like, that was like a, I mean, they knew him a little bit. But the real question is, what is going to happen to Kanye West today? You mean on Valentine's Day? Yeah, without Kim by his side. He can't even see his damn kids. Well, I mean, he's recently married, so he's probably just going to get head from his scammer chick and then take a nap.

And then watch Failure to Launch on Hulu. No different than anybody else's Valentine's Day. He's like, if you want to check out this new Ashton Kutcher vehicle on Netflix, it's about two best friends who, wouldn't you know it, are actually in love. No, no. We're going to order some Dave's Hot Chicken to the house. Don't spoil it. I think that this could actually send him... This could be the darkest spiral we've seen from him yet. I feel like we might even get a comment or some sort of public reaction. Yeah, with Ye gone, I ask, who is going to run this town tonight? I mean, it's a great question. I love that Rihanna song, so I was wondering. That's not a song. That's a car commercial. melody hey man that that's and that's what keeps the lights on um i wish i had i wish i had a commercial melody all the light yeah and fuck rihanna for playing two kanye songs and not bringing kanye out that is that is exploitation as much as i love rihanna that's a you have enough songs to where you don't need to do kanye west songs that you were featured on we were having a lot of discussion about this um this whole thing you know the whole rihanna because we recorded before the the halftime show obviously and i thought it was great I mean, I just, you know, I've seen her. I did not. I've seen her live before. Yeah, but but it's like that's her whole thing. Like they're all boring and boring. The only one that was good is Prince. Name one other one that was quote unquote exciting. Well, this is this is what this was my point on Sunday. I do not enjoy the music of the weekend whatsoever. But his halftime show, it was it was two years ago. It was one or two years ago. There was the West Coast Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre one, and then The Weeknd was the other one. The Weeknd was an emotional roller coaster. I was like, damn, this is a good – he put on a good show. He did what he was supposed to do for a Super Bowl show, a big spectacle, crazy stuff going on. Rihanna was good. I mean, she's pregnant, so like –

she's not going to be able to really blast off that choreo like she's in black pink or something the fact that but she but what i'm telling you though is i've seen rihanna and she never blasts off the choreo that's like that's like not what she does i just think that the weekend it's funny you say that because i am a weekend fan i don't remember that at all i don't remember a single thing about that performance i think he closed with blinded blinded by the lights or whatever that song is and i was like damn i hate this fucking stupid ass song but yeah yeah he's cooking no he's great i mean his show is amazing yeah his show is amazing i mean i've seen it i saw it recently but yeah i think that's the difference it was it's a show and not a whatever the rihanna thing was i mean it was it looks cool you know the willow perron like what if we did this and it was floating and what if they're the stage is actually no stage at all type of thing but then it's also like i see a football field with like a budweiser spray painted on grass like we're not in the future guys well yeah but that i mean what are you supposed to what are you supposed to do work with your organic environment but anyway we got a guest here people expect so much out of these things i'm just surprised by it all right yeah we do have a guest today um this is this is a long time coming for how long gone uh especially for me a big fan of the band the Goo Goo Dolls as you guys all know Iris just crossed a billion streams we all grew up with this they have a new record they're going on tour it never ends and I will say I'm going to ask Johnny Resnick this as soon as he gets on but like What other people have made it this far from Buffalo? You know what I mean? Because I don't know. He might be the best thing ever from Buffalo. I'm going to say that now before I talk to him. There could be a couple drug smugglers that put up some pretty big numbers. But, yeah, let's give Johnny a Zoom, and we're going to get into all that and more. A perfect Valentine's Day guest, if you ask me. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace.

Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from the Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone.

It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code How long? Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. What kind of headset are we rocking? Like full cans or we have like a microphone attached to it? Like a full – like I work at the call center. Okay, sure. You know, I've actually – it's interesting that you have that because I've also thought about making the switch to that. I'm very interested in being hands-free. But I haven't been able – is this because you're gaming so much or do you have this for other reasons? No, I just –

I keep losing the AirPods, so I got this big honking thing with a quarter on it. Obviously, I'm older than you guys, but yeah, I'm just on the cusp of that. Some technology doesn't make any kind of sense to me. Yeah, I look forward to being there sooner than later, but I think those are those fun little idiosynchronicities that we have that make us a little special is like you know what fuck airpods those things are stupid and dumb and little and fuck them and then you're like you know that's that's what makes you you what what other what other technical things what are you shying away from have you uh have you abandoned or shied away from yeah chat gpt i'm staying the hell away from that okay well good We've never even used it a single time, so welcome home. Welcome home. Thank you. Do you still drive with a map, or do you have the app on your phone? No, no, man. I'm all into my nav and Waze. Okay, good, good, good. See, that's an example of something where you're like, damn, how the fuck did I live without this? You know what? I don't know how I figured anything out before Google. I'm just like, really? I used to have to go look it up in a book? Wow. It was truly a different time. I actually don't use Waze because I find it too confusing, and I think the interface is kind of ugly from an aesthetic standpoint. I don't know if that – but it must be so good that you're able to look past that. He feels the same way about Spotify. He hasn't really wrapped his head around it yet. Yeah, it's tough. Spotify, yeah, I have a love-hate relationship with that. i bet you do but people have found out how to use spotify to play some of your songs just a few billion times though so somebody out there has it down yeah somebody's figured that crap out somebody's cracked the code not easy you're like these young people keep rediscovering my shit on spotify so i guess i'll keep subscribing it's fine you know it's fine i'll give my 10 a month 10 bucks a month for

basically all of recorded music yeah everyone wins except for the people that need to make a living off of it you know what i mean uh yeah that's yeah it's funny because i was listening to uh like a conference that they were having with all these kids that were graduating from from uh you know some college where they they learned about music business courses and stuff okay okay okay and and so you know they were having a q a and they asked the speaker um I'm trying to break into the music business, and the guy just stopped him and said, don't be an artist. Damn. He's like, get in on the tech side. He goes, because there's no money left in being an artist. Yeah, that's what I was dreaming of in my bedroom when I was 13. I want to get in on the tech side of this thing. That's really where I'm at. That's where all the girls and the money are. Yeah, exactly. If I work hard enough one day. I can manage the TikTok profile of a SoundCloud rapper just the way my grandparents intended me to. Yeah. A friend of mine is a really great songwriter, a guy named Sam Hollander. Oh, I know. I actually know Sam from back in the day. Do you really? Yeah, I used to manage a band, and Sam and Dave shared a little studio off University Place with JD. Oh, wow. Yeah, I know Sam pretty well from back in the day. Well, that's crazy. Anyway, go ahead. He knows he's a genius. Yeah, Sam is very talented. We all know his songs, his work. Unbelievable. So he was talking about working with an artist. And he's like, you're amazing. Let's go get a record deal. And all the A&R guys wanted to know about were the TikTok numbers. Yeah, it doesn't. It's like, well, wait a minute. Don't you want to hear about 20 songs and make up your mind that way? But no, no, no. We've got to have a presence on TikTok. I mean, it's the same way for us doing a podcast as well. They're like, hey, we do this thing where it's an audio-only art form.

Dumb little videos with the music sped up and I do a little dance, you know? Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. And we're trying to resist that, but I'm sure at some point we will also have a TikTok. Otherwise, we'll die. I'm staying away from TikTok. Although, you know, somebody said, well, why don't you just do a verse and a chorus from like 30 songs and just put them all up at once. See what happens then. Okay. Just you and a guitar doing that. And then I'm just like. Yeah. It's just the thought of being a real adult and being on TikTok kind of creeps me out. I like the distinction between being an adult and being a real adult. Being a real adult, yeah. Somebody with some self-respect, perhaps. Yeah, just somebody with a kid and bills and all that kind of fun stuff. Okay, sure. Okay, you got bills. Somebody who's seen the pains of the real world. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of strange. I'm always trying to read these articles about how to be a better dad because I'm neurotic about being a dad. Because so far, not so good. So far, not so good. Damn. No, I'm sure you're a wonderful dad. How many kids do you have? Just one? Just one. That's it. And you waited. She's pretty young, right? Like you waited a while. She's six. Yeah, she just turned six. Okay. You know, and it's amazing. It's amazing. And I love her. I'm gone too much. Sure. You know, but trying to negotiate that is an interesting experience. But it was like, so I subscribed to this newsletter about how to be a better dad. And they're like, three things you need to teach your child now. Honesty, reliability, and humility. And I'm just like, wow. Wow. The world has changed. It's like, yeah, you hope. And I'm like, you know, people are suggesting that we go to church. I'm like, no, I don't want to go to church. So, yeah, back in our day, I was like, learn how to stand up to a bully, you know, stuff like, you know, child stuff. And now it's like.

Exercises in humility. If your parents would have taught you humility, you might not have ever gotten to where you are today, though. You know what I mean? Oh, my parents taught me humility, man. I mean, I went to Catholic school for nine years. Oh, wow. And my parents taught me humility. Like, here's the fastest lesson in humility, okay? Anybody remember this sound? The back of a shoe? Is that a belt? Yeah, no, that's getting smacked upside down. Yeah, I know. I grew up in a belt household as well, which I think now my parents might be in jail for that. But it did teach me. Maybe that's why I'm so well-adjusted, Jason. Maybe that's why I'm so well-behaved. Yeah, and why I'm such a naughty one because, let's face it, I like the spanking. No one ever hit me with a belt. But I think nowadays there's a real difference between hitting your kid. And giving him a good smack, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's true. It's true. It is a fine line, but those who know, know. Yeah, I haven't crossed that line yet. Good for you. She's a little girl. Yeah, if it was a dude, it'd be different. We're getting milkshakes after. I haven't gotten to that spot. If I had a son, though, like just dealing with the other little boys that are hanging around and all that, with all the other kids, I'm just like, I'm so... grateful i have a girl until she starts hanging out with those guys exactly exactly that's when you're gonna have to go change your prescription yeah i know dude and i'm an old dad i'm an old dad compared to all these other guys i was gonna ask you i was gonna ask you what's the vibe at the you know at the pickup line are they like oh here comes this fucking guy or are you vibing with the younger dad oh you know yeah i mean There's definitely a disconnect from being a Gen Z guy or being a – excuse me, a Gen X guy and all the dads are millennials. There's sort of like – there's a certain disconnect between the two generations in it. But I mean they're all cool. They're all cool and – There's a couple of dads my age too, which is nice. Sure. I hear these stories from our friends that have kids where it's like something that having a kid does that nothing else does is force you to spend time with people you might never spend time with. Absolutely. Sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not great.

But I imagine that you bring a different je ne sais quoi to the kind of carpool line. I'm just – you know what? I just wave and smile and I'm as nice as I can be. Okay. Smart, smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Johnny way. Whenever anybody asks me about what I'm doing, I'm just like, not much. What are you doing? Okay. Pivot the conversation away from yourself. I mean it's like I don't need to talk about what the hell I'm doing. It's on TV. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if those guys will be able to relate to kind of the grind of touring, you know? It's pretty insane. It's pretty insane, you know? You're going back on tour? Yeah, and we're just doing like sporadic shows here and there. So you get to sleep in your own bed, ideally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, mostly. I generally have a gig on the weekend or something like that, so I'll just... Fly out on Friday, come home Sunday. That's perfect. That really is perfect. That really is perfect. Is that a little scheduled alone time? Oh, my God. You know what, man? A little hotel time? Nothing better than sleep until you wake up. I'm just sleeping until I wake up. Then I'm going to order room service. So as you get older, that never gets old? That never gets old. Okay. Yeah, you know, I mean, but, like, I'm on this, like, I'm on this campaign. I'm going to be the most. in shape dad regardless of age at my kids school because it's like let's talk about it let's talk about it so you are sober very cool yeah exactly i'm very sober i'm very sober we have a lot in we have a lot in common i'm also trying to be the fittest dad um but i don't have any kids but i'm just getting up there in age you know what i mean so it feels right he has also replaced substance use with The glory of fitness. The glory of fitness. It's a classic pivot, which we've seen many times. But what is your poison now? Do they have an equinox in Buffalo? Well, I live in New Jersey. Okay. So, no, I haven't seen an equinox. But the little town that I live in, there's like a lot of local mom and pop things. So there's like this local guy.

trainer opened up a gym that's that's where i go it's open all the time you have a little key card you just go in there and just and you blast whatever music you want nobody's ever in the place it's like it's really fun it's really fun this sounds ideal this sounds ideal so are we doing cardio are we lifting weights are we going heavy what do we what's the program right now well i mean it's a pen like well okay you know i start every workout with cardio. End it with longer cardio. You mix your cardio up. If I've got time, I'll do a long, slow thing. Keep my heart rate around 75%. Always use a heart rate monitor. Then I'll do HIIT training a couple days a week because if you do that every time you work out, you'll destroy yourself. Then I'll do upper, lower body splits like four days a week. Okay, yeah. Johnny's getting it in. I'm a big fan of AthleanX and Jeff Cavalier. I don't know if you guys are aware of that guy. I'm not. I feel like AthleanX, I've seen the word before, but I would love for you to explain it. Are they open for Evanescence, I think? Yeah. This guy, he's got some really interesting insights into training. nutrition and all this kind of stuff. He was a strength and conditioning coach for I think it was the Mets. Then he started this thing. The guy's in insane shape. He has one cheat meal a year. That's so sick. Holy shit. shit that's the thing about these guys like sometimes i see these trainers that aren't in shape and i'm like why on earth would i hire you i want a guy like this that looks like he's chiseled from stone and he has one cheat day oh this guy that's what i'm looking for that's the level i'm trying to get to right it's something to aspire to it's i mean you know i mean that's his job so it's kind of like what you know i mean he dedicates himself to the whole thing i mean but he's damn one sheet meal a year he won't even go to duncan to use the bathroom i bet

No, no. He's got to find a salad bar. I only use the bathroom at Sweetgreen. It's a rule. Now, diet-wise, because obviously and exercise-wise, traveling, touring makes that very difficult. I talk to my travel agent when I'm doing my own research. I kind of will stay at a hotel based on the gym. I will make that decision. Are you in the same boat? Yeah. The first thing is definitely got to have a gym. But what I started doing when I go out on tour, every time I pull into a town, I have a rental car. So what I do is I'll get in the rental car and then I'll Google best gym in town, Whole Foods near me, whatever. Johnny, this is fucking me up, bro. This is fucking me up. Why? You're basically – this is the ghost of Chris' future. This is basically – this is literally what Chris says every day. This is exactly what I do. Yeah. This is exactly what I do. Where can I get the best smoothie after I go to the best gym in town? Right. Just that kind of thing because it's like – it's impossible. It's like – you know what I've noticed? When you have to eat in restaurants a lot – and you guys know this because you travel a lot – the meaning of plane. means nothing like i just want this is like i got nothing against red meat i'll eat red meat i love red meat love a good burger i just don't want anything on it okay because i don't i don't you know you take the top of the roll off i'm just trying to be realistic but it's like i try to stick mostly to like like vegetables and chicken And then some protein shakes. But then you go to the restaurant and you order that and you're like, here's our broccoli Alfredo. Exactly. It's really hard to get some steamed veggies, some grilled chicken and some plain white rice. That's it. In 2023, unless you're cooking it yourself. Good luck. Right, exactly. And we always have like a rice steamer with us on the bus and that.

You know, it's difficult. Some days, yeah, you wind up missing a meal and then I'll eat pizza at midnight. And then I'm like, okay, well, you got to do X amount of time, you know, extra gym. Yeah, I mean, it's calories in, calories out at a certain point, as they say. Right. I like that at a certain point in the whole overarching trajectory of your musical career. You guys have basically just turned into a vegan straight edge touring band. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, kind of. I mean, well, our drummer was our drummer. Craig was a vegetarian. And then he just like one day he was just like, but the guy never he wasn't like an annoying vegetarian. Don't don't come for me on my own podcast. He kept it. He kept it close to the vest. He wasn't trying to brag about it. Yeah. Like that was just he was just like, he's just I never I never liked the texture of meat. So I'm like, yeah, I respect that. That's cool. But now, for some reason, he just started eating meat. And he's like, I feel so much better. Interesting. Probably like an energy level thing. Never say never, man. The body changes. Yeah, the body changes and your nutritional needs change. And you reach a certain age and you're prone to a little more injuries. It's like you have to be very in tune with your body when you're hitting the gym. okay, well, yeah, I could bench press my body weight 10 times, but I'm going to blow my elbow out, so I got to take it down 40 times. It's not worth it. Yeah, it's not worth it. And then, you know, there are different paths to hypertrophy, I suppose, you know, and it's like, you know, some days you just got to do, you know, five sets of push-ups until you fail just to get the blood in there. And then, you know, okay, so. Just to feel something. Yeah, you know, or, you know. I mean, sometimes you've got to modify what's going on, and then there's days I feel like a beast, and I'm like, great, let's do this. Those are my favorite days as well. Now, did this kind of lifestyle, did this happen post-sober, or were you flirting with this before you were really able to take it into fifth gear once you stopped partying? I always worked out. I always worked out because I always drank so much. Okay, sure, sure, sure. Okay, yeah. And it's like there is nothing.

Like, staying up until 5.30 in the morning and then passing out and then getting up at 9 and trying to work out, you know? And you're just like, ugh. That had to end. And real quick for the record, alcohol was your poison mostly? Yeah, yeah, you know, mostly, yeah. Mostly, yeah. Mostly, yeah. Got it. Mostly, yeah. If I drink enough, I need a bump too, so it's a safe space. Yeah, I just see my thing with cocaine. was like every time I did it, I was just like, I just blew $1,000, and I am not nearly high enough. Sure, sure, sure, sure. The whole time I'm like, I don't do that. I don't do that. I don't feel anything. You're ruining your friend's high as well as your own. Okay, so it wasn't fun to be around. Meanwhile, everyone around you is like. Get a load of Axl Rose over here. And in your head, you're like, I don't even feel anything. Yeah, I feel nothing. What a waste of money. We should probably get more. Yeah, exactly. Just to be on the safe side. Right, exactly. Are we going to have to buy more? That's a good idea. Just to be sure. I mean, I think. But those nights are few. Far between. I mean, the road does it to you for sure. I mean, I think that like it's. I don't think people understand how boring. touring is yeah it's a lot of like waiting around and sitting around and there's there's you know that like the sound guy's gonna get you coke your your dressing room's gonna be full of whatever you ask for which i'm sure is alcohol it's just there's nothing there's it's a little bit of boredom i think plays into it there is i think and i think a lot yeah i mean i think you can fall into some pretty serious addictive behavior yeah when you're because of boredom i mean and you're lonely out there there is a certain amount of solitude that's great but i have friends that are stand-up comedians and i always feel really bad for those guys because they travel alone you know at least i have a gang of people that i'm with i have i have social interaction with them for sure meanwhile for me i'm like traveling alone god

What a fucking dream come true. It doesn't sound like a dream come true. Where's the first place you want to go alone? I've been wanting to go to Vegas pretty soon, just solo, three days, hang out in the room, get some writing done, not songs. Yeah, I do too. I just like being alone. We were told by a friend that it's Francis Ford Coppola, right, Jason? I forgot who would do that. It was A. Coppola would go to Vegas to write because you would get a room really high up, and it was like you could always order food. You could always go do something 24 hours a day, but you could really concentrate on writing. Yeah. It's like when some people, you go get a cabin in the woods and finish the great American novel. It's just like that except. You can get a hooker if you want, and there's free room service 24 hours a day. You can get a club sandwich and a blowjob any time you want, so it makes it a little better. It's like being out in the woods. Yeah, exactly. With room service and massage. Yeah, when you come back from bear hunting. There's a little chocolate on the pillow. It's a nice touch. It is great. Vegas alone, Jason, I mean, I did it recently. I went to go see Morrissey, who was doing shows at Caesars, and I went alone because obviously no one would join me. And it was a little dark. for me i not not in like a way that like i want to do drugs it was just like it's dark it's a dark place if you don't have anyone to talk about the crowd at mr chow at 6 p.m on a friday night in las vegas then it becomes you internalize it and that might get unhealthy yeah yeah i don't i don't think las vegas is a uh A very healthy place. Awful, awful place. No, no, sure. No, in general. I have fun when I – I don't gamble either, which is like I'm so happy that I never got into gambling. Me neither, dude. Me neither. Same. I just don't – I can spend money just fine. I don't need to light it on fire. Oh, yeah. I do not need to do that. Yeah. Why do you guys – so why do you – did you live in New York and L.A. and then you were just like, I hate this shit and moved to New Jersey? Yeah. Or is there another reason? Yeah, I did – well, my wife's family is from here. Okay. So when we had –

The kid, we were just like, yeah, we're getting the hell out of L.A. because I lived in the hills in Hollywood. It's like, that's no place for a child. Just Los Angeles in general is not a place for children. You don't miss it a little bit, the modern conveniences of city living? I live a half an hour from New York City. But let's keep it real, though. How often do you come into New York City? Because we all know how this goes. I'm in the city all the time because my buddy has a studio there, and that's where we work and mess around. Okay, okay. So if you're going to write or do anything, you don't have one in your house, so you have to come to the city. No, I don't have anything in my house. nothing like if you came into my house you would not even know that a musician lived here not even a harmonica very cool so you're saying to me that this is all your wife's fault what's going on here no it's my decision you know i mean it's okay like because i just always felt like you got to have a private room in your house right you got to have a private room in your house where you you put your accolades on the wall and yeah you know you could go you can go into this secret little room and uh kind of look at what you've achieved like the gene simmons kiss room yeah exactly all the shit right exactly it's like we're like where you don't have to burden whoever comes over to your house, and you look like a douchebag because, oh, here's all my stuff on the wall. But when they say, like, show me the stuff, then you can be like, all right, we're going to go to the room, and if they really want to see it, it's all there. Yeah, but I don't have one of those. You don't have one at all, so where are the plaques? Are they in a storage space? They're in my basement in boxes, and my sisters have them. I have one thing. And it's from the Songwriters Hall of Fame. I keep that one on the mantle of the fireplace. Because to me, that's something that I need to look at and remember. Why the hell I do this? Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. So you're saying the plaques, like all the numbers shit doesn't matter, but songwriting is what you actually care about. Why that specific plaque compared to, I'm sure you guys have won a Grammy or at the very least an MTV award. No, neither. No? We got nominated for four Grammys, MTV never nothing. Jesus Christ. But also with the Grammy awards, there's so many.

you know, backdoor politics and favors and things like that going on, whereas a songwriting award is just based on pure songwriting, which is what you consider your gift to the world to be. So it makes sense that that would be the one that you respect the most. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like... I'm not too obsessed with being a rock star or whatever. I know guys who love being rock star. Johnny, I believe you, but your hair would lead me to believe different. You know what I mean? I didn't say I wasn't image conscious, but it's got nothing to do with acting like a rock star. So you're saying some of your peers, they fall into the tropes of what we as citizens consider a rock star to be or to behave like. Right. I know guys. that have to do their hair and and put their boots and jeans on and got like they'd leave the house in the morning dressed as the rock star sure sure they can't go to petco without putting their harley boots on and everything exactly and i me i'm just like i'm If I'm not on stage, I'm in sweatpants and a hoodie. Chilling with no makeup on. And I got a baseball hat. I'm just like, fuck it. I want to be comfortable. I'm a grown-ass man, God damn it. I earned these sweatpants. Yeah, you know what I mean? I'm very proud of what I've been able to accomplish in my life, considering everything. Sure. I feel like it's best to keep it discreet. No, no. I mean, look, I think you're, you're, you're right. Absolutely. I mean, I think that it's like, but I guess, I guess then is the like songwriting aspect of things. Is that where you feel the most comfortable, like in the studio session, either with, for the band or would you rather, I mean, like if it was up to you with that, is that what you would do all the time? Or does the performing scratch a different itch as well? I think I would definitely like to be in the studio all the time. I think that would be a lot of fun. You know, and it's like, but you can't do it. I mean, because it's like, like you were saying, I mean, there's not a lot of money in songwriting anymore. Well, that's because every song's got 24 people splitting it. So it's a little tough. I know. It's a little tough. It's that too. There's that. And then, yeah, you know, and then.

Nobody buys albums anymore, so there's different revenue streams that are just gone now. So you're saying having an album cut, you basically have to have the hit, or you ain't going to make any money. Yeah, you've got to have a hit, and it's like music has changed. I had a great run at radio, and they still play all the old stuff on the radio. Oh, we know. We hear that shit everywhere we go. Yeah, and that's a beautiful thing. concern for uh like the young guys and girls just starting out because it's just like man you got so many things against you now yeah and it's it's just it's kind of um it's like and a lot of people they're using their musical career as as a launch pad for their brand yes yes that's like instant like you know cock my fist back i'm gonna punch you in the face for saying that but fuck you and your brand it's on site it's on site i'm i agree with that 100 no i mean you're right also do you feel do you sorry to interrupt no go for it um johnny do you feel grateful that you were right on that kind of last beautiful cusp of like late 90s early 2000s where the artist was still Getting that juicy check from radio, from album sales, from MTV, from all the shit. Well, MTV never paid for anything. Well, I guess not MTV. But, yeah. I mean, it was really nice. I mean, I feel for the young artists, though, because it's like they have such a circuitous path to follow now for diminishing returns. And, you know, where it was like it was very easy. In a way, it was a very straight path. It's like you make the record. You send it to radio. You go visit radio. You bribe a couple of people. You're like the amount of times I had to play acoustic at 7 in the morning hungover. I earned this shit. Do a couple of steak dinners that you didn't want to do. Here are a few jokes you don't want to laugh at. Right, exactly. And that was the way to do it. But now it's just sort of like.

I have to figure out a viral moment. The studio that I work in in New York, there's a few other writers in this place. They're working with these TikTok kids. I'm showing my age here. I feel bad for them because it's like when you're in the studio, and you know this, when you're in the studio, that is like the dome or the cone of silence. That's a sacred place where you get to be and do whatever you want so you know you got to make the sausage right nobody wants likes to see how the sausage is made but if you're a tiktok kid you got gopro cameras everywhere you got a ring light you got a ring light attached to your fucking neck. You're doing hair and makeup before you go into the studio. Yeah, and you're sitting there. I'm like, what's that like to be on all the time? No, it's exhausting. That's the thing. Anytime I've been in a recording studio as a person who's not there to record, I'm like, this is boring as fuck. Get me out of here. I don't want to see this bass player we should have never hired fucking trying to get this part right. There's a guy in here that can do this. I can't eat any more of these cookies. Exactly. Like, yeah, I know there's a rock climbing wall, but I'm all set. You know what I mean? So it's a little bit, it's a little bit like, I do think that the, I think that's why when like music documentaries started really coming out and you'd start to see that stuff, it would be like a real window into like the creative process. Yeah. You know, and that's why it was so exciting. It was like, you see. fucking adele whatever you see someone like hum the melody yeah and then you see them get the lyrics and they you know they're like mumbling and blah like that stuff is really special to see yeah but yeah when you see when you see the tiktok guy with his ring light just like talking about how great his producer is it does kind of ruin the the mystique of the whole thing yeah if it's if it's michael jackson laying down beat it for the first time or stevie nicks finally getting that melody down yeah well that's fine but not like lil freddy from

who's got 2.3 million followers for doing dope-ass kickflips. Yeah. I mean, the currency of fame has definitely gone down in value. Oh, I mean, it's at the floor. But I mean, I think what's interesting about the band, for me, because I'm a long-time... long-time fan and a lot of my friends are as well and i think it's like an interesting you guys just occupy this interesting space where it's like you were just kind of like a regular band that all of us would have seen at some point in our life at a bar at a club or whatever and then shit just kind of exploded yeah like you're saying like it was like we just kind of did this thing and it all fucking worked and like we wanted to be the replacements and then all of a sudden we were on trl yeah you know and it's like it's like that doesn't really happen that just doesn't happen anymore because people have such a more clear idea of what they want to do or what they have to do. They don't just let it happen. They don't just make a record and hope for the best. Right, exactly. Well, you can't. That's true. We're really lucky because we just toured and toured and toured and toured for the last 35 years. Whether we were playing in shitty little bars or... or like, you know, arenas and amphitheaters and that kind of thing. We just kept going and going and going. And we've been lucky enough to have an audience that has grown with us. And, you know, we get to play in front of people. We can put asses in the seats. Yeah, yeah. And that's a beautiful thing. And, you know, I mean, that's my first, like, if I say any, if I said my prayers, that would be like, my first gratitude thing would be, Thanks for letting me be able to earn a living doing this. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, of course. That poor and famous shit sucks. Yeah, no. Yeah. No, poor and famous ain't it, bro. I completely agree. I completely agree. I'm middle class and famous. But you never really – but you didn't play ball. I mean you did what you had to do, but you weren't like out here like dating actresses and coming out of the chateau fucked up. Like you were never fully playing that game, were you? No, no, no. No, I kept it to myself. It was really weird though because it was like when Robbie and I – you're an overnight sensation. It took 10 years. Sure, sure. It took 10 years.

It took 10 years for us to get anything. You only had to play 8,000 shows. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But it was like the amount of backlash that we got, I was pretty blown away by. I was pretty blown away by like how people we'd come up with and music critics who loved us, you know, just like, fuck these guys, you know. And that was kind of when I – He said, this fame thing is bullshit, so tighten up your circle and work harder. Keep your head down. Mind your business. Keep your head down. Mind your business. Just say please and thank you. And people still talk shit about you. I had to get off Twitter because I'm just like – and that was back when I – I've been off Twitter so long. I still drank back then. And don't ever get drunk and look at yourself on Twitter. Good advice. That's great advice. Good advice. Because you're like, what the fuck? Like, I don't care. You can say my band sucks all you want, but don't talk shit about my friends or my wife or civilians. Oh, yeah. It gets personal. Yeah. If you don't like my record, that's fine. Yeah. But the rest of it? No, I know. Yeah. Because I don't give a fuck. Your opinion. Guess what your opinion is the equivalent of? Lint in my pocket. And also, anyone on Twitter who cares enough about you. to send a tweet about your wife or a family member of yours. They already bought your album. So you're already, you know, jokes on you, jokes on them. You already made a nickel off them. Exactly. But I mean, I would engage like, fuck you, you asshole. And I'm like, I get the call from my manager. You can't do that. What are you doing? You can't do that. I mean, that's the thing. The lines of, there's too much ability to contact now. And I think that there's also, we talk about this a lot, but how celebrity now, there's no mystery, which I think is what. what used to work so well. Yeah. You know, it's like you wouldn't really see somebody until they had something to promote. Right. You know, it's like DiCaprio could get fat between every movie because you didn't see him. Right. You know, and now it's like now I see a picture of Leonardo DiCaprio every fucking day. Now we got a Chinese spy balloon with a live satellite view of his yacht. Yeah, it doesn't, it just doesn't, it's not, it's not the way it used to be in those regards. And I think there is, I think, you know, it's like anything else. It went too far the other way. You know, we need to land somewhere.

It did go too far. We need to land somewhere back in the middle. I wonder if we can. I mean has the genie been let out of the bottle or are people going to collectively go – because are people going to collectively go, all right, enough of this shit. I got to put this shit down. Or we need to put up some guardrails because it's like – I think social media is especially toxic to young women. Oh, yeah. It's insane. Oh, it's like absolutely twisted. I mean I think it's like – I think, yeah, I think you read these, I mean, you see these articles, the New York Times fucking style section publishes one a week where it's like some minor group of young people have decided that they only use flip phones now because it's better for their mental health or whatever. Yeah. Or then you see, or then you see it's like, or even in your case, you know, this is similar, you know, people using wired headphones because they're just like, all this shit is too much. I don't want all this stuff. I'm just going to use some regular fucking headphones. So I think there are those like kind of small like backlashes, but I do think that. a big shift i don't know what would happen like would the kardashians have to finally go away like i don't know i don't know what would actually what it would actually take for it'll it'll take apple making an iphone that doesn't have a camera yeah yeah honestly but i i i was reading about that same thing like these kids who just well what i love about it is they the kids take their smartphones say i'm going to jimmy's house they dump all their smartphones at jimmy's house because they know their parents are tracking them and then they take off without them oh i like that i like okay that's a little cooler so they're up to no good someplace else but their parents think they're at jimmy's house you know i'm like clever but there but is it is it better to be up to no good with no cell phone the way that we did it when we were kids or better to be Up to all good with your cell phone only, just watching cool videos and getting fat. I don't think kids were as nuts as we were. They definitely weren't. I don't think kids have the desire.

i mean like my parents were old you know you never thought like my parents never wanted to be my friend yeah no i think there's something healthy about that your parents have never said hey little buddy everything okay hey buddy how you doing like shut up i agree with that i totally agree with that i think there's this weird there is a weird thing where it's like my we're not equals like you're my parents like we have a great relationship but i don't need to like spill my guts to you that's not that's not how it's no no i agree i think it's not that's not really how it's intended to be right yeah yeah does your daughter call you john hell no could you imagine i mean like i john get in here yeah we need to talk can you make me some macaroni and cheese no like come on kid you know i mean i i i do my best to reason with her but you know i mean but it's like you know and and It's interesting because it's like these electronic devices and games and things like that are really great bargaining chips because it's like you just – I just give her enough of that stuff to be able to impose sanctions whenever I need to. You know what I mean? So it's sort of like we're going to be diplomatic about this. You don't get the iPad for the half hour today. You know, but and I never like, you know, but just things like that. Or, you know, if you're going to eat chocolate cake at two in the afternoon, you don't get dessert after dinner, whatever. You know what I mean? Or if and on the beautiful side of that, daddy fucks up. Guess who's getting a new iPad? Oh, yeah. Hell, yeah. And it's all it's all forgotten. Yeah. You know, and it's like like I got a little bit of dough and she's the only kid I'm ever going to have. So it's like every time I go anywhere, I'm just like. Oh, she would love that. Oh, she would love that. And I had to train myself to stop. I'm like, you are going to fuck your kid up if you give her everything. That's good parenting. I mean, that's true, though. That's good parenting. That's sweet. That's very sweet of you, though. Do you think she gets what you do for a living, or is it still a little blurry? She gets angry at me. Daddy always goes bye-bye. Yeah. She gets angry at me, and then she gets sad. Yeah. And it's like, well, so do I. When I'm sad, I just get mad.

I feel like as a guy, you're only allowed one feeling. That's right. Especially a guy from Buffalo. Don't hurt my feeling. My single feeling. Don't hurt it. And then you look at your wife and your child and everybody else. That counts on you. And I always feel like it's very important. My daughter has to see that I have an emotional part of me. But I always feel like I have to project. the everything's okay yeah of course of course i mean yeah cool everything's cool i know your forehead's bleeding yeah but we're cool this is fine happens all the time happens all the time that's that you know i i actually that's a method our ambulance is on the way i learned this when i i like um I went to see a trainer when I was in Toronto, and because of a few factors, I passed out. And I felt fucking insane, and he was so calm about it. And my head was bleeding. I literally fell over. My head was bleeding. He leaves it all on the yoga mat. I was just like, bro, what the fuck? He's like, that's what you're taught. If I would have acted like it was a big deal, you would have freaked out. Exactly. But because I acted like it was no big deal, you just kind of calmed down and drank some water, and you were fine, right? Yeah. I'm like, damn, I never thought about that before. Yeah, I mean, because kids – Kids are looking for cues. Have you noticed this? It's like when a little kid is running down the sidewalk and they trip and bam, go down, and then they look up at you. To decide what to do, to decide if they should cry or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you're running towards them in slow motion with snot crying out of your nose, they're going to start snot crying too. They're going to freak out. Yeah, it's like you just got to be cool. And it's like I'm not always cool. But I make my daughter. I make my daughter do everything with me. I'm like, Dad's cooking dinner. Get in here. I've got to put her little apron on. She's got her little step stool. I'm like, here, we're going to crack some eggs in this bowl. Take this. You're going to learn. She's going to learn how to do everything. You know how to dress a deer? Get in here. I don't know how to do that. I'd put a pair of pants on it. I just want her to know how to do it.

everything so that she's got some self-reliance yeah like well-rounded is no i think that's i think that's good johnny you're making a good case for parenthood i must say as as two podcasters who are childless You're painting a nice picture, and you're giving me hope for later in life it could happen. Jason, I feel like that's because he waited until he was as successful as he was. 50. Yeah, he was like, all right, I'm good. I'm good now, so I can concentrate on this. I think that feels like a – I feel like that's a cool – 50 it is. I'll do it the Johnny way. Yeah, well, I mean I wish I had done it sooner, but I was so fucked up and off on my own stupid trip. I mean I had to – make sure that i was sober for a couple of years before i was like there's no way because it's like i grew up in an alcoholic home and it's crazy it's crazy it's like there's there's it makes you grow up and you're like there's no stability you don't know what the hell is going to come walking through the door and it fucks you up so it's like i'm not going to do that to another human so so growing up in that environment the thought of ever recreating that again Even in your drunken state, you knew that can never happen. I never thought I'd have a kid. I'd have to be stone cold sober. I never thought I'd have a kid. I never thought I'd have a kid. And my dad died when he was 54, I think. And I just never thought I'd be around this long. Because it just felt like that's just the way it is. That's the way life works. Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's like sometimes that's the way life works. But it took a lot of therapy and a lot of – and some trying to unfuck my head to just go, you know what? I'm not my father and I'm not my mother. It's like I don't have to be these people. I can choose my path. Does that color my perception of the world? Yes. Do I have to sit back and go, okay, John, shut the fuck up and try to be rational? Okay?

just calm the fuck down okay all right cool all right you know and then and then move on with your with your life but you know it's just you know i mean growing up in an environment like that definitely provokes a lot of anxiety in me as a father you know just just because i mean how could i could go off the rails yeah yeah yeah i mean of course how could you not um So something we talk about on this show a lot with musicians that our listeners really love is we talk about, we call it sync talk, and we talk about kind of a moment. when you got a gigantic check for licensing one of your songs or maybe the opposite you said no and you regret it to this day you said no to the arby's commercial and now you're really kicking yourself i feel like you have a lot of these because you've had such a longer a long career and and your songs there's at least five or six songs that i feel like i hear weekly to this day yeah um i tried to shy away from you know licensing stuff to politicians and things like that although you know i mean i i have on a few occasions if there was somebody that i really thought was an exceptional person or whatever but hey 45 did a great job i get it i you know what i i gotta be honest i'm kind of a whore I'm like, you're going to pay me what? All right, so you're saying I can't begin to even recount all the times that it was good. It was good, man. You're like, I don't even care what the movie's about. If that's how much you're paying me, let's fucking run it up. No, I mean, I've definitely – I've said no to some things. uh i think there was a uh like a pringles potato chip commercial that i said no to and uh and i'm really glad i did you're like i'm a dorito i'm a doritos guy and i had to go with the heart no i'm saying i'm saying you had to go with your gut i'm like i'm a ladies guy i can't do this it would just be wrong it'd be wrong because yeah the whole thing pringles are just all wrong anyway um so you said no to the pringles check for just a personal reason you don't like how it's hard to get your hand all the way into the bottom of the can yes

But it's, yeah. I'm a simple guy. I have personal reasons, yes. But it was just, I don't know. It was just like, this ain't a good look. And it's like, look, you know what? Times being what they are, you know, it's like somebody comes along and says, hey, we'd like to use your song in this commercial. And it's like, you know, you just kind of go, you just got to go with your gut. Does that make me feel bad or good? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and more times it makes me feel good than bad. That's right. That's right. I'm sure it does. So how many, let's say how many episodes of Dawson's Creek have you got a check from? Oh God, like a hundred. Every episode they ever fucking made. You went down to the creek a few times, didn't you? Went down to the creek and cashed the check. I mean, oh, that's good. I mean, I think that like, it's also, I always like to ask people in your position, like, Do you feel, because there's this big article, you know, obviously this year at the Grammys, there was like songwriter of the year for the first time. Really? There was this big, yeah, there was this big story in the New York Times with the Dream and another writer and they were kind of talking about how like you just, when you have to develop a gut. when it comes to songwriting where it's like i know that this idea is it and it's worth chasing and i know i have a fucking hit and you got to know the other hundred times where it's like i got to put this on the shelf it ain't got legs yeah you know and it's just like do you with some of these songs that have become like obviously iconic especially in america did you have that were you like this is the one for like first draft like this is a fucking smash or did you doubt yourself no i mean I look at every song and go, wow, this is awesome. And if it's not awesome, I just throw it away. I'll delete it from the computer. And everybody's like, well, where are all the B-sides? And I'm like, there aren't any B-sides. Why? What's the point? Because they were shitty songs. Most of what you write is shit.

Or most, excuse me, most of what I write is shit, you know? And you look for the gems inside that place, you know? And it's hard. Unless you, when you finish the song, if you don't say, Johnny, you son of a bitch, you've done it again. If you don't do that, straight to the recycling bin. Yeah. Throwing it away seems, yeah, throwing it away seems drastic, but also so healthy in a lot of ways. Seems very therapeutic. It's like, I don't want to, yeah, well. I don't want to wind up with 10 terabytes of half-assed, half-done songs that I've got to wade through. I don't know. I'm a really harsh critic of my own situation. And you probably have enough WAV files on your computer called New Song version 17.3, right? You don't need to add another one. Yeah, it can get a little crowded. I'm heavily into editing. I mean, there's a certain amount of time that you need to not edit yourself because you have to allow yourself to suck. Richie Sambora said that to me one time, which I thought was we were trying to write a song together. He's like, dare to suck, man. I'm like, yeah, dare to suck. Yeah, the sooner you get done sucking is... is when you, when you really start doing the good stuff. Yeah. You have to be willing to suck. Yeah. It's like somebody asked me about what, what is your songwriting process like? And I said, it's kind of like you're at an, uh, an outdoor festival and you're in the port of John and your wedding ring just fell into the shitter and you got to dig around in there until you find that hunk of gold. Cause you ain't going home without that ring. So that, that, that makes perfect sense. Well, I mean, sometimes songwriting is really frigging annoying. And the longer you do it, the less you can rely on raw inspiration and the more craft you have to involve in it, which takes a lot of patience. And you have to sit in your own frustration and get used to the taste of it and not forget what the taste of that frustration is. And then you're able to move on from there. Yeah, I guess the hundredth time.

diving headfirst into a port-a-potty, it does get a little bit easier than the first time. Yeah, it's a little easier to tolerate the first time. Still shitty. Still shitty, but, you know, I mean, I never underestimate my luck ever. Like, it's been awesome, you know? Beautiful. And, you know, I don't know. I mean, music has changed and so much. I mean, do I think I'll ever have, like, a number one hit again? I doubt it, but, you know, that doesn't, Doesn't mean I'm not going to keep writing and working and performing as best I can. That's beautiful to hear. Well, I guess a guy like you, what does somebody like you do on today, Valentine's Day, for your partner? Do you have to write a brand new song every year? Do you get to play some of the old ones? How does it work? She's over that shit. She's like, I don't want to hear any more of your bullshit. She's just like, yeah, that's great. That's great. Okay. Now, she's really supportive, so that's good. But it's weird, too, because I don't play anything for her anymore. Because I feel like when I'm working on demos and all these things, I just feel like it puts people in an awkward position. Like, what is she supposed to say? This shit rocks, babe. Yeah, it's like if you're not directly involved in the production and the writing or whatever, the song, it's like, just wait until it's done. And that's why I love collaborating with people more than sitting around writing by myself. Because it's like you have a sounding board. And after 20-something years of sitting in a room by myself, it's just kind of like, I can't do this anymore. I need contact with other humans. Of course. No, of course. I mean, that makes sense. I've always found that. I mean, I think that's the thing, right? All of the fact that the songwriting cat is out of the bag as far as like... the public goes like most people know it's a little bit of a group effort and in a lot of situations yeah you know the the idea of like the bob dylan character like sitting alone smoking cigs just blasting them out is just like not really it's not realistic and it's also not healthy you know it's it's neither of those things i took three hits of acid and i finished the wide album in a day yeah just that's not real you know it's just not realistic and i think that that's been i think it's probably better that that is that has been debunked yeah you know i mean i mean there's times where i do

have songs that i just do on my own but that's it's few and far between because i just i would rather have someone to bounce my ideas off and and i you know i i've tried to make it so i'm the weak i'm the weak link in the room you know this is my project or whatever and if i'm the weakest link in the room we're gonna do okay you know like i i gotta i gotta work with guys that are better than me All the time. And to be willing to admit to yourself that this person is better than me is also not the easiest. Yeah, sometimes grudgingly. Sometimes grudgingly. Fuck that asshole. I don't agree that you're a better songwriter than me, but... But maybe some other people might, and I will give them a chance. Yeah, so I have to give it up. Yeah, that's how this podcast works, John. Jason kind of knows that I'm better. Not in every way, but he knows he's got a lot to learn. So it kind of works. It really works for us in our relationship. Yeah, and then I get to edit out whenever he's funny. We live happily ever after. Now, is there a rivalry between you guys, you think? No, no. Honestly? Yeah, I think so. I think so. But that's what keeps it fun. It's not a real, you know, actual rivalry where we hate each other. But there's a healthy, fun, playful rivalry. Yeah, you saw how Lennon and McCartney turned out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would rather be George Harrison, so I'm going to just take myself out of the conversation. I would too, but unfortunately I am dating the Yoko, so we'll see what happens. That's true. Yeah, I mean, look, I think that the nature of any creative partnership is there's always a push and a pull. That's what people like about it. That's what people like. That's what people listen to this. And I think you can even hear that sometimes musically with some of these duos we're talking about. I mean, my favorite band of all time is Oasis. It's like, you know, who better of an example? I love Oasis. I didn't like them at first, but then I was just like.

These guys are amazing. And yeah, who better than that? You're a song guy. You're a song guy. You know, they got hits, man. They got slaps. And they, I mean, he's, you know, Noel Gallagher is just, he's an incredible songwriter. They don't make rock stars like that no more, you know? No, man, they don't. That's my real issue. All right, Johnny, thank you so much for joining us on How Long Gone. It was a pleasure. Great job. We're truly fans. We've been listening to you forever, so it was really nice to connect some dots here, and hopefully we'll get to see you on the road this summer. Yeah, we'll be out there. I really appreciate you guys taking some time to talk with me and have fun, and good luck having some kids. Thanks, Johnny. Don't say that. You're going to be waking up at 5 in the morning going, fuck Resnick, I hate that asshole. Honestly, you did a great job. In your life, and you did a great job podcasting. Not a lot of people can do all that, so my hat's off to you. Hope you have a great Valentine's Day. I'm working on my brand. Yeah. And good luck with your personal brand and TikTok. Thank you. Good luck with your brand. When I see you on TikTok, I'm telling you right now, I'm getting in touch. You're going to hear from me again. You're going to hear from me again. You know, when the drummer in Blink-182 comes out with a skincare line, it's just sort of like, we have jumped the fucking shot. Anything is possible. Anything is fucking possible. Anything is possible. All right. No, that's good. That's good. That's good. All right. Thanks, John. Have a good one, bro. Bye.